Leafs rumours 4

05 Dec 2023 06:35:24
Tor- Nylander, prospect, Conditional 1st (if Nylander doesn't resign)
NYI- Dobson

The Islanders have shown interest in Nylander and the Leafs get their #1 D-man.

Tor- Marner
CBJ- Fantilli, 1 of Johnson or Jiricek

Columbus has already expressed interest in Mitch and clearly thought they would be better than they are. Marner helps guys like Gaudreau and Laine be the force they can be. The leafs get younger and cap space.

Tor- I have no idea
Mon- Wifi

Toronto should target Wifi as he is a young player that perfectly fits the mould of the type of player Treiliving wants to bring in.

05 Dec 2023 13:16:35
I got to ask the question who do you now play with Matthews and Tavares if the leafs were to move both wingers might as well rebuild.

05 Dec 2023 18:13:26
Wifi is a perfect fit. He's also perfect for what MTL is building though. Not sure why they move him.

06 Dec 2023 03:00:42
If CBJs trade Fantilli they get another winger (Gaudreau, Marner, Laine) but have traded away their future #1 center.
How is Marner going to help Gaudreau without a high end center?
How is Marner going to help Laine when they are both right wings?
Plus Johnson or Jiricek?

05 Dec 2023 06:02:04
Leafs trade Niemela

Washington trade Sandin

This trade isn't happening and I wouldn't trade Niemela. In my opinion Niemela will be a better defenceman than either Sandin or Liljegren

It's only one season but neither of Sandin or Liljegren had the stats for Marlies that Niemela is putting up. His talent projects as a first rounder by talent

For all you guys that want to chuck blue chip prospects it's nuts.

The way to assemble a Stanley cup winner is pays ur top 5 as leafs do

Matthews
Marner
Tavares
Reilly
Nylander

For each one of those guys you want one entry level player on roster. Or players who will continue to make less that 2 million


Right now you have 4 guys that play much higher than there salary level. Next year they will increase the number of those players . This is what allows you to pay Nylander

Woll
Robertson
Knies
Liljegren

Next year leafs have more players in this group
If leafs can have all these guys going well above what they cost then leafs can pay Nylander add two defenders say Zaborov and Tanev and still have lots of cap space

So stop trading the next generation of star players we could have excellent cost on 9 players next year


Hileby
Woll
Niemela
Liljegren
Knies
Robertson
Cowan
Minton
Holmberg much better option than Kampf save 1.5 million land Holmberg is better

05 Dec 2023 13:20:51
So you’re suggesting that trade, but then saying you wouldn’t do it? Also sometimes you have to move blue chips for the now…. The leafs are win now.

05 Dec 2023 15:04:00
#JamesWeathermackin

I won't comment on the "trade" because it isn't really a prop.

For one, there is no evidence that you pay 5 guys big money the way the Leafs do and that will win a Cup. There is no evidence because no one has ever won it that way. All the evidence suggests the opposite of that.

"Blue Chip" prospects are what would be considered a can't miss high end player. Some people throw this around a little (lot) too much (you) . Marner and Matthews were blue chip prospects when drafted. Blue chips are the best of their draft and dominate at their position.

Woll (25)and Liljegren (24) are not really prospects anymore and no way Liljegren is a "star" player. Woll is yet to be seen if he has actually developed into a long term starter solution. I am very hopeful for Woll.

Hildeby-Not blue chip, but looks quite good
Niemela-Not a star or bluechip.
Knies-Not a star. A top 6 forward though
Robertson-Not a star-could be a decent mid 6 complimentary winger
Cowan-Not a blue chip
Minten-Not a blue chip.

05 Dec 2023 15:53:07
Ckps 1976

If leafs keep all there main pieces now and just trade minor pieces for Tenev.
They head into free agency resign Brodie and Tenev then Zadorov in free agency. Are the Leafs better this year or next with the kids graduating to big club as they should?

Reilly Brodie
Zadorov Tanev
McCabe Liljegren
Timmins Liljegren

Cowan
Minten
Niemela.

05 Dec 2023 16:51:30
Cowan won’t play in the NHL next year.

06 Dec 2023 03:06:47
You make rather outlandish assumptions.
Leafs sign Zadorov?
Leafs resign Brodie?
Leafs can even acquire Tanev?

How about Robertson plus a 2024 - 3rd round pick to the Flyers for Sean Walker (50% retained)
Gregor can move up to the 3rd line LW slot and do as good or better a job than Robertson while McMann can fill the 4th line LW slot?

05 Dec 2023 05:07:46
Tor: Marner,Reeves
Mtl: Gallagher,pezetta, Allen, wifi

Tor: nylander signing In place
Ana: McTavish, lyubushkin, drysdale

Tor: samsonov, lily
Edm: Nuge

Lineup

Knies Matthews McTavish
Bertuzzi Nuge Gallagher
Tavares domi jarnkrok
Pezetta Kampf Gregor
Robertson

Reilly Brodie
McCabe lyubushkin
gio drysdale
Benoit wifi

Woll Allen

05 Dec 2023 13:19:30
Gallagher is washed pezzetta is a fourth liner Allen’s a backup and wifi is bottom pair guy who can’t even keep his spot in Montreal terrible trade

The Anaheim one is ok but the ducks want guys to build around their young players so probably not trading them.

06 Dec 2023 03:08:20
Marner for 3rd and 4th line pieces and a 3rd pairing defenseman?
Outlandish!

05 Dec 2023 04:48:42
Leafs 3rd rounder 23 islanders pick and 4 th 2023

Calgary Tanev

To create more space trade

Leaf's Kampf
Arizona 7 th round pick

Prospects not trading

Cowan should make jump next year
Minten should make jump next year
Niemela should be ready next season NHL
Hildeby I would use him as backup next season behind Woll

Noah Chadwick what a find this guy is one of younger players in 2023 draft. 18 years old born may 10 2005. Last year with Lethbridge

Chadwick 22-23 Games 67 goals 5 assists 15
Chadwick 23-24 games 25 goals 6.assists 14

Noah is already 6-4 200 lbs I'm sure he joins marlies next year leafs will need to sign him to ELC

To me that's there top 5

Nikita Grebenkin is in the last year of his Russian deal. Leaf's need to get him on Marlies and see what we have in him. Playing sluggish in Europe doesn't mean much Niemela struggled last year in Finland and with Marlies he is already one of AHL top defencemen I'm sure he joins AHL Allstar game he turns just 23 on march 25

In off season leafs are going big fish hunting

I would resign Brodie

Zadorov and Tenev seem to be pals with Treliving

So defence next season

Reilly Brodie
Zadorov Tenev
McCabe Liljegren
Niemela Timmins

Those two defenders may cost leafs 4 million each and ur deep on defence at least 8 deep

Lots of money to sign Nylander. I don't think Bertuzzi has done enough to show him as a keeper but we will see more during playoff run.

05 Dec 2023 13:24:34
You’re kidding yourself if you think the leafs get Tanev that cheap Calgary is gonna tax any trade with treliving as for the prospects you listed I wouldn’t rush cowen mitten is a bubble player niemela probably stays in the minors another year as for Chadwick could be something but still a lot to prove and I don’t trust any Russian to come over to play in North America.

05 Dec 2023 14:49:31
#JamesWeathermackin

No way Calgary makes that deal.

I will say this, out of all the things you wrote, you may end up being right on Grebenkin. He has NHL size. Very shifty. Pretty feisty. Doesn't mind going to the dirty areas and will even fight if necessary. Like many Russians, he is a good skater. Shot needs work and holds the puck too long too often. His defensive play also needs work, but not uncommon for a young player. I agree. I would like to see him in North America to see if he can play a North American game.

06 Dec 2023 03:11:04
Cowan
Minten
Niemala
Hildeby
All belong on the Marlies next year unless they can unseat an incumbent in training camp!

05 Dec 2023 04:17:15
Leafs trade Kampf

Arizona 7 th.

Leaf's need to clear his money. In Arizona he offers them faceoffs and hopefully more offence


MPH
Let's go back when Nylander signed his last deal. He asked Dubas not to trade him. Dubas told him we won't trade you until we have to.

Nylander loves Toronto he feels like he was shafted last deal so he wants fair

Leafs only have Tavares making huge money one more year. So they can pay Nylander 10.5 x 8. Your not paying Nylander the same as Pastrnak who makes $11.25 million

Matthews took less if you look at his number he went from $11.6 million to 13.25. He could have asked more but I'm sure he left money on table so they could sign Nylander and Marner will do same.

It's a family between
Matthews Marner Nylander Tavares and Reilly that's the blood and guts of your team ur not trading that

05 Dec 2023 06:43:31
What planet are you living on? Mathews left money on the table? He's the highest paid player in the NHL AND only signed for 5 years.

05 Dec 2023 00:20:17
Nylander doesn't sign by Feb 15
Trade him
Ducks get Willy Liljegren Steeves
Willy signs with Ducks
Leafs get Vatrano McTavish Lyubushkin Drysdale

05 Dec 2023 03:25:10
I'd trade him regardless. His value will never be higher. Trade him yesterday.

04 Dec 2023 14:01:44
Leafs trade 3 rd and 4 th Kampf
Calgary Tanev

RLF

The defenceman ur getting is Tanev and he isn't costing Robertson. I do want another top 9 forward I don't think Jarnknok brings emough to third line

04 Dec 2023 17:51:44
Well, hello Weathermackin.

I am pretty sure I am not getting Tanev. We haven't even spoke.

In the prop I put below, Robertson helped get the Leafs Jokiharju and Peeke. I'd be fine with that.

Question. Which Leaf 3rd liner has 3 pts and a +3 in the past 5 games and which 3rd liner has 2 points and an even rating in the last 5 games? Then tell me who doesn't bring enough to the 3rd line.

04 Dec 2023 21:23:32
That’s a pretty crazy question

I have a question 4 u

What was Domi doing b4 Robertson was recalled?

04 Dec 2023 21:37:15
RLF

Domi

Oct 0 goals 4 assists
Nov. 0 goals 7 assists
Dec. 1goal.

Jarnknok

Oct 1 goal 2 assists
Nov. 4 goals 4 assists
Dec 0 goals 1 assist

Robertson has helped those two guys.

04 Dec 2023 22:39:30
@DM Jarkrok also kills penalties, and plays a well rounded, 200ft game.

04 Dec 2023 23:56:23
Weathermackin
That is such a disingenuous way to formulate proof that Robertson has helped Domi and Jarnkrok. Put up the umbrella and slap on your raincoat weatherman, because a thunderstorm of actual facts are coming your way ?

For one, to answer your question, Domi was playing wing before Robertson got there. That's where he was. You can't claim Robertson has helped Domi at centre because we have no comparison for Domi as a centre without Robertson. I notice you didn't answer my "crazy" question. It is Jarnkrok the better and Robertson the worse. Just so you know. Not sure how an actual fact based question is crazy compared to your subjective Robertson lovefest question (s) . I'm sure your heart pounds rapidly every time you think "Robertson, Robertson, ahhh 30 goals mmmm. " (just havin fun with you)

November obviously has the most games played of those 3 months, so of course the numbers should look better than October and December.

Robertson played his 1st game November 6th. 11 games in total. He had a 4 game point streak. Then only 2 points in the last 7 games.
Jarnkrok also had 4 pts in those first 4 games and 3 pts since.
Domi had 5 points in those first 4 games and 3 pts since. They have both outproduces Robertson. I could easily argue that Robertson had a hot start and has since held the other two back. Robertson has not outproduced his linemates at any time. Robertson may compliment them, but it is a huge stretch to say he has "helped" them to succeed, and without him, they wouldn't produce.

The big difference is that when Minten and Kampf were the 3C's before Domi switched to centre, Minten had 0 points and Kampf had 2pts as the 3C's in 11 games. Jarnkrok still had 5 points and Domi had 4 points in that 11 game stretch prior to Robertson's arrival. It is pretty clear that they could produce despite having centres with virtually no production helping them (2 pts combined in 11 games from the two 3C's) .

Jarnkrok has 7 points and Domi 8 points with Robertson. So, yes production is up as a line. Kampf has only 2 points since Robertson arrived, which is another 11 game stretch, so it is not like his production has gone up without Domi and/ or Jarnkrok. The big difference is not Robertson on the wing, it is a centreman in Domi that is producing. It is pretty clear that Kampf and Minten did not help them produce at all. McMann has one less point in 4 fewer games since he got here as compared to Robertson in that same timespan. Maybe McMann deserves Robertson's spot.

Both Domi (+2) and Jarnkrok (+4) even strength while playing with Robertson. Robertson just got back to even (0)last game. Robertson definitely does not help their defensive game. They are constantly covering up for him. Robertson also sports by far, the worst oisv% of the 3, which suggests when they play without Robertson, goals against go down for the other two.

The other difference is since Robertson's arrival, Domi and Jarnkrok are getting less defensive zone starts and more offensive zone starts. In other words, being put in a more offensive role than before Robertson got here. This is also because, unlike with Kampf or say McMann even, the coach cannot trust Robertson defensively so Robertson gets sheltered offensive minutes. They are helping Robertson succeed much more than the other way around.

I don't dislike Robertson. He is a complimentary winger though. He needs players that help him, not the other way around. Robertson would produce no to little offence if he had to carry a line and it is most likely if he wasn't sheltered, the goals against would far outweigh the goals for.

If that is the best you got for me as proof Robertson helps the other two, you are going to get washed away with the river of actual facts on the subject and your career as the weatherman of this site will be in jeopardy. ?.

05 Dec 2023 01:22:42
I might add that we should not denigrate Kampf’s play and productivity too much as the poor man has been forced to play a substantial amount of his minutes with Ryan Reaves. ?

I agree with the analysis that Robertson is a complimentary player not a line driver.
He needs others to forecheck, get the puck, make the plays and feed him the puck as he is a shooter.

I would not be unhappy if Leafs traded Robertson to the Flyers, straight up for Sean Walker (50% retained) as I feel Gregory’s speed, forecheck and shot would fit as well on the 3rd line as Robertson and that McMann could take over the 4th line LW position.

05 Dec 2023 13:10:45
I agree WB, but I don’t think Flyers give Walker straight up for Robertson. If so, do it asap.

04 Dec 2023 13:02:40
3 team deal

Buffalo
Samsonov $3.55M(Tor)
2024 3rd (Clb-LA pick)

CLB
Robertson $.797M(Tor)

Tor
Jokiharju $2.5M(Buf)
Peeke $2.75M(Clb)
2024 4th(Buf)

Then

ARZ
Liljegren $1.4M
Jones $.875M
Tor
Vejmelka $2.7M
2024 3rd(EDM)

04 Dec 2023 13:41:52
I think you spelled Ingram wrong RLF. Lol.

04 Dec 2023 13:54:24
RLF

Your still not liking Robertson didn't you like his nice pass to Domi to tie game 2-2 the guy is only getting 10 min a night.

04 Dec 2023 13:57:15
I don't see his name mentioned anywhere in those deals.

04 Dec 2023 17:43:16
DM aka James Weathermackin.

I have never said I don't like Robertson. If you are suggesting the Leafs should build a team around him, then yes, I strongly disagree. He is a small complimentary winger with a hard shot. It's not like he can't be replaced. I think both Minten and Cowan have higher ceilings. If he can be used to get a D, cant we just put Steeves in his spot and not miss a beat? You lobby for Steeves to replace Jarnkrok. Surely Steeves can replace Robertson as well.

04 Dec 2023 19:28:15
That was a nice pass. Guess he's mcdavid now after one play.

04 Dec 2023 20:00:08
Sorry stupid joke but Leafs would rather Ingram not Vejmelka in that trade. Ingram looks lights out right now, keep ARZ in the mix.

04 Dec 2023 20:26:43
@Clarky. I thought it was funny. I wanted the Leafs to trade for Ingram when he was in Nashville and hadn't played an NHL game yet. He took longer to develop due to a personal issue iirc.

05 Dec 2023 01:29:12
As a Liljegren fan and supporter I am not crazy about the Arizona deal but with Samsonov and Jones gone Leafs will need another goaltender to back up Woll. Vegmelka would be a good candidate

The three way deal bring Jokiharju and Peeke to the Leafs I am totally onboard with.

04 Dec 2023 03:16:04
Leafs trade 1st 2024 Steeves Abruzzese

Buffalo skinner 50% retained


Buffalo have a lot of bad contracts or else everyone is having a bad year at same time.

I wonder if they want to rebuild again but they are going to have to eat money on some players

04 Dec 2023 04:01:21
They aren't rebuilding.

I don't want that contract.

04 Dec 2023 04:14:05
To me Steeves and Abruzzese would inject youth and energy a hunger the players in Buffalo don’t seem to have. So although they are eating money they have two forwards that can fit in their lineup and they are cheap a long time.

04 Dec 2023 10:33:36
Leafs can’t afford to spend assets on a forward. They need two D and probably a goalie.

04 Dec 2023 12:15:12
Let's break this offer down. The Leafs are going to send the Sabres two 24 year old AHL players and what is most likely to be a 20 something 1st round pick and the Sabres are going to send back a multiple time 30+ goal scorer AND eat $4.5M of his contract for this year and 3 more?

How about instead, Buffalo sends the Leafs Rousek, Weissbach and a lottery protected 1st for Marner 50% retained. Seems fair, right?

04 Dec 2023 13:46:31
@RLF lol telling it how it is. Mackin you understand that other teams are developing players just as talented and better than our Abbruzzese and Steeves. Don’t see Abbruzzese ever becoming an NHL player, at least here in Toronto. Way too many better players competing for maybe one spot each year.

03 Dec 2023 21:59:11
Assuming Klingberg LTIR for season

To Toronto
Durzi $1.7M RFA
McBain $1.6M/ 2 yrs RFA

To Arizona
Robertson$.8M RFA
Liljegren $1.4M RFA
Hirvonen ELC
2024 4th

Then

To Toronto
Tanev $3.5M ($1M retained)

To Calgary
Abruzzese ELC
2024 3rd
2024 5th (Toronto)

Please adjust if values don't make sense, but these are the players I would like Tre to target.

Knies - Matthews - Nylander
Bertuzzi - Tavares - Marner
Domi - McBain - Jarnkrok
Gregor - Kampf - McMann

Rielly - Tanev
Brodie - Durzi
McCabe - Timmins
Giordano/ Lagesson

Woll
Samsonov

Not sure if this fits under the cap, but I think it's a much better line-up all around.

Thoughts?

04 Dec 2023 02:28:03
Like these targets as well.

04 Dec 2023 03:34:02
I cant wrap my mind around having Durzi back lol.

Love the targets but think you're a bit light on both. Yotes look like they may try and push for the playoffs, and Tanev can probably command more than Zadoeov by a good amount.

04 Dec 2023 04:18:16
How js McBain better than Robertson.

04 Dec 2023 08:28:06
@LL I'd be willing to add a bit more to both props. As I say, Durzi and McBain are both RFA's and if we could get a 2/ 3 year extention with Tanev (depending on price and how he plays) .

@Mackin McBain may not be a better goal scorer, but he plays Center, is bigger, more physical and is defenively sound. Plus he PK's, something that can definitely help the Leafs.

04 Dec 2023 12:17:13
@Tags. I think you might be a bit light on both, but close. Good props and interesting idea of how to change the D. imo.

05 Dec 2023 01:37:20
Not sure that is enough to peak Arizona’s interest in parting with McBain and Durzi though both are good targets. Might have to sweeten the deal.

If Calgary was interested, we have a deal!

03 Dec 2023 17:08:12
Leafs. Oleksiak at 50 percent retained
Kraken. Robertson Liljegren

Leafs tanev at 50 percent retained Ruzicka
Flames 1st 2024 Steeves Niemela

Klunkberg on LTIR

Rielly Tanev
Oleksiak Brodie
McCabe Timmins
Gio Lagesson

03 Dec 2023 18:45:52
I like the Seattle trade and tanev trade don't know if we have to give up 2 prospects plus the 1st round pick but love to have both of those guys.

03 Dec 2023 19:19:37
I like both targets and fair value for both IMO. Good prop. Would love for it to happen now. Lol.

04 Dec 2023 12:19:02
MPH. Good props. Not sure Calgary would also give Ruzicka and I don't think Seattle would want to retain for that many years, but good ideas.

04 Dec 2023 23:57:29
RLF
I didn’t realize oleksiak contract was that long still
My bad
You are correct.

05 Dec 2023 01:42:03
Trading Leafs 2024 - 1st round pick and Niemala concerns me as it leaves only Minten and Cowan as true, NHL prospects in the Leaf cupboard.
I like the targets but not enough to whittle down what little is left of Leafs future after Dubas was finished his trading frenzy.