Leafs Talk

18 Apr 2024 17:42:23
@leafslife.

I can admit when I'm wrong, Jones did not play well, little help from the team but that's been ongoing last few weeks.

Boston in 6

18 Apr 2024 19:13:21
Not sure any of them have played well though lol. Goalies+team look like garbage.

18 Apr 2024 20:33:35
It was a team total non-effort.

18 Apr 2024 01:24:20
Anyone else really hate watching these last two games? I stopped watching in the second period of both.

They might as well have had a top line of Mathews, Marner, Willy, with JT on defence and Bert on the other side, pulled the goalie, and just prayed Mathews scores.

18 Apr 2024 13:47:56
Agreed that it was frustrating. I left early as well.

Only thing important to the team was getting Matthews his 70th.

Can’t wait for the new season to start.

Let’s change the results!

18 Apr 2024 13:49:19
The hope is that they know how to play and they can do that starting Saturday. If there is no buy in to strong defence by the team, I can't imagine Keefe stays.

18 Apr 2024 14:15:44
Keefe does not know how to teach defence in our own end and it’s gonna be our Achilles heel. Wingers are always caught too low or on the wrong side. I feel bad for Bert and Knies trying to figure out what side to play in our own end because Mitch and Willy are down low and on both sides. It’s like tyke hockey, they just chase the puck around wherever it goes. Keefe has never addressed this but Marner puts everyone on his team out of position in his own end because he is a puck chaser. Turnovers and wingers getting caught too low in our end will cost us the series.
IMO if we are out first round again; give your kisses and hugs to Keefe and Marner because they are gone/ traded.

18 Apr 2024 15:07:31
Ckarky. I agree with alot of that. That's his collapse defence with pressure the puck. Many puck chase and puck watch. Whatever happened to identify your man. Or check over your shoulder. Even on backchecks on rushes the backchecker puck chases over identifying his man and creating a 3 on 3 (except McMann, he goes to the guy he should) . If they'll did like McMann the dmen wouldn't have to try and re-identify which guy is theirs now. Instead, 2 on 1's get created as the backchecker and dman have the same guy. Like you said, it's not rocket science, they are obviously cheating for hopeful offence if you can turn it over and head the other way.

18 Apr 2024 16:23:53
@Well Said Clarky. It's definitely Keefe's system. I'm not sure I'm even opposed to pressuring the puck carrier in a collapse system, it just doesn't work with this D corps imo. You need extremely high iq D on all pairs, who are also mobile to a point in order to quickly identify their man and close any gap created. That's why we see D out of position so often.

@RLF Your man crush on McCann is rubbing off on everyone lol. He's been amazing at both ends. Really liked his effort on the backcheck and even his presence in breaking up the cycle once it starts at times.

18 Apr 2024 16:32:51
Where do you even start they lose 4 straight to end the year averaged like 5 goals against non of the goalies played well we already know there will be three or four guys playing who are not healthy (domi jarnkrok edmudson and mcmann ) and the lineup just seems like a mess. Having holmberg as your 3C shouldn’t be an option I’ve said move domi back to centre but seeing how Matthews and marner and Bert played I wouldn’t run that line so now what do they do just a mess all around.

18 Apr 2024 17:25:45
LL. I'm just glad he is getting a chance. 2-3 years of me touting the guy and he finally got his chance and made me look like I actually knew what I was talking about (phew. lol) . I guess McMann was my Bennett for this year. lol.

17 Apr 2024 14:43:00
So, the top 2 lines seem to be clearly established.

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
Mcmann-Tavares-Marner (if McMann healthy)
Then
Knies-Holmberg-Nylander (I would think)

***I'm not big on Kampf playing 3rd line C, but since it doesn't look like JT or Domi will slot into 3C, do you think Kampf is a better option over an inexperienced Holmberg?

Or maybe a surprise with Jarnkrok at 3C, he has more offense but hasn't been used in that position at all in Toronto.

Then
Holmberg-Dewer-Reaves

Obviously Jarnkrok would be in dependant on health & Robertson dependant on injuries.

RLF I know you've been advocating Kampf at 3C all along.

Thoughts?

17 Apr 2024 15:04:23
Tags. It's not that I think Kampf would be one of the best 3C's in the game or anything, it is more that I think if you put him with two other big wingers with the some offensive ability, that line would be a net positive.

When Tampa had Goodrow, Coleman and Gourde, they had some size, some speed and were very good defensively and all played physical. I think Toronto could create a similar outcome with McMann, Kampf and Knies. Leaving Domi, Matthews Marner and Bert, JT and Nylander as the top 2 lines. Or if you want to leave Domi and Bert with Matthews, then you can load up with Nylander, JT and Marner as the 2nd line. Then go with Dewar, Holmberg and Reaves as the 4th unit and you still have Jarnkrok when ready and Robertson and Gregor if needed.

17 Apr 2024 16:08:29
@RLF my problem with putting all the big boys on two lines is they don’t play the right way when they are all together. They try carrying the puck in or making high risk passes. If they keep a grinder on the line, they dump the puck in and try to create offence through forecheck/ puck retrieval and cycling. This IMO is the style they absolutely need to play against Boston, if we have consistent unnecessary turnovers, we lose against this team. Dump and chase all day, finish your hits and have each others backs and we should be ok. Need special teams to be better than Bostons as well.

17 Apr 2024 19:00:58
Clarky. Faith enough and a good point. Domi and Bert aren't afraid to dump it in. If the big boys don't buy in as they are the ones typically carrying the puck, then I'm not sure a grinder will force them to dump and chase.

17 Apr 2024 21:59:48
@Clarky I like the idea of spreading the three lines out as well. I really don't like how Marner looks with Mathews or Willy with Mathews. It's just too much of the same.

This season is the most Mathews has spent away from Mitch in a few years, and he might have 70 goals. Don't need Mitch.

16 Apr 2024 08:01:00
Leafs trade Jarnknok Kampf

Utah trade 3 rd rounder 2024

RLF

We need new thread here seems Sears thinks you're sleeping at the switch like I do.

Let's look at Robertson minutes last game you actually think he has been given fair opportunity?

Nick Robertson had 10:52 of ice time Saturday night and that's all he has ever got all season

We are not counting Bobby McMann last game because he was hurt after 4 min of Ice time

The only player to have less ice time than Robertson was Reaves @ 8:17. Holmberg ended the night @ 11:11 Knies 13:21 Kampf had 12:04. This isn't fair opportunity kLF.

But it's ok Robertson is growing his stripes but I assure you next season his role will expand he will have a big playmaker on his line I suggest Marner and Robertson stats are going up.

Just stop thinking leafs prospects are useless and others teams prospects are better.

Leafslife actually would trade Robertson plus a pick for McBain. You guys both think they got more than we do and it's not the case

The leafs winning curve hasn't even started yet they have made mistakes like letting Hyman walk. Four players graduated to leafs this season

Robertson
McMann
Holmberg
Woll

This is next wave that's is coming

Cowan
Minten
Niemela
Quillan
Hildeby

All won't come through next season but I'm sure three on this list make it

RLF Start loving your prospects the Leafs haven't had this ever 1970s through 2022 the leafs had no prospects like this list

16 Apr 2024 13:35:17
Mackin,

Ok, so explain exactly what would be fair opportunity for Robertson then. If you don't think him getting predominantly offensive minutes, even if they are limited to offensive minutes, then what does a true fair opportunity look like and why does he deserve it over whoever's minutes he takes and whoever's possible position he takes in the lineup?

I do value our prospects, but sometimes when you have too many of one certain type of player, you use those assets to get what you lack.

16 Apr 2024 16:52:36
15 plus min a game would be nice Robertson has never had it.

16 Apr 2024 17:33:12
You didn't really answer my question though.
How does he get 15+ mins a night? Who's ice-time does he take? Marner? Nylander? Bertuzzi? Domi? Knies? McMann? Who?

16 Apr 2024 21:33:45
@RLF Mathews. Nicky Bobby can do better.

17 Apr 2024 13:45:32
LL. So Nicky Bobby can play centre too? Not sure why I doubted that.

17 Apr 2024 13:57:55
Let's look at Robertson's last 5 games. Not that a small sample tells the whole story. 2 were against NJ and one against Detroit. He scored 2X a +1 and played around 11 mins in each game. The other two games were against Tampa and Florida. 0 points and a -1 even though he played almost 13 mins in one and 13:38 in the other. I know some don't think it matters that he doesn't produce much against good teams, but it matters.

18 Apr 2024 14:58:10
RLF

So as you said, let’s look at the last 5 games.

I went to hockey-reference. com and read that NR had as you correctly stated 2G 1A in those games.

What it also stated was that NR was a +2 in those games.

+1 against Tampa and Fla in 12:54 TOI (12:52 and 12:56) with 1A
+1 against NJ (2gp) and Det in 10:56 TOI with 2G

So maybe you can share your site because there obviously is a discrepancy.

And of course then there is the notion that NJ and Detroit are not good teams versus “good but not playoff teams this year”.

I will thank you in advance for your help in better understanding this matter.

18 Apr 2024 17:12:27
Rsears.

I used Hockey Reference.

As I said, in the 3 games that included NJx2 and Detroit. He scored 2X and was a +1. In the other two games against Tampa and Fla, he did not score and was a -1. Dates April 3-16.

It seems you are including last nights game instead of the April 3rd game. I wrote my post before last nights game, which you can see by looking at the date and time it was posted and considering the posted time can sometimes be hours after sent in.

If you want to now update to include last nights game, that's fine. In those 3 games. 0 goals, 1 assist and a -1 against Tampa 2X and Fla once. With ice time of 13:38, 12:56 and 12:52 respectively. Either or, he still didn't score against the tougher teams and did against weaker competition as I stated.

If you want to classify Detroit and NJ as being good teams that's your evaluation. I guess we have a difference of opinion on what a good team is as well. To me, a good team is a team that can be in the top half of the League at least and make the playoffs. I wouldn't call the Leafs a great team just because they finished 10th overall. I would say they are a good to very good team.

NJ was 4th last in the Conference and only 10 teams League wide had worst records (22nd League wide) . There were only 5 teams that allowed more goals than NJ. Personally, I wouldn't classify NJ as a good team this year. I think they had a very disappointing season and didn't play well.
Detroit finished 18th in the League. Not bad, but not good. imo Detroit I would say is getting better, but still not a team that has been able to make the playoffs yet and when I look at their lineup, they need to make some significant adds still to become a good team.

18 Apr 2024 18:13:59
So thank you for clarifying that it was a different 5-game window. By coincidence your earlier analysis covered the same 5 teams.

So it is realistic to conclude, as you stated that it is a small sample size, that a different window could yield a different conclusion.

Yet you make your point that it matters who the opposition is.

While I dont necessarily disagree with statement, how does one conclude with certainty that because NR didn’t against Tampa in your 5-game window he is not being effective?

He had scored 2A assists in 3 games against Tampas this year and 1G and 1A in 2 GP against Florida.

The Tampa game in your window had the Leafs score one goal only so it’s safe to say that at least 15 Leaf ALSO didn’t register a point.

All this to say I believe you’re being overly harsh toward NR.

I’m neither a critic or a proponent, perhaps more for than against. I’d consider a trade but the determinant is at what return, as it always is.

I don’t like his giveaways and that he can be easily pushed off the puck but he’s only 22 with (I don’t know for sure) maybe 70GP so I’m willing to delay a final judgement on him.

So yes we disagree…and the world still turns!

18 Apr 2024 18:58:47
I said "I know some don't think it matters that he doesn't produce much against good teams, but it matters. " I didn't say that conclusion was based on that 5 or now 6 game window.

As you know, I already showed the season goal scoring for him and which teams he feasted on and who he had no goals against. Let's also consider that his shooting% this season of 14.6% and is double compared to the 25 games he previously played over the past two seasons. So, it's not like not scoring against the better teams is because he has an unusually low sh% this season. His ice time wasn't cut against the better teams either. He has a low sh% against playoff teams and a high sh% against non-playoff teams though.

Yes, the Tampa game Leafs scored one goal and no one else but Matthews scored. I don't get your point. I could easily say that in consecutive games late March against Washington and Edmonton the Leafs scored a total of 13 goals and Robertson didn't have a point. Played Washington again 5 days later scoring 5 goals and Robertson didn't have a point. I don't see how either scenario proves anything about Robertson, other than what I said about not scoring much against playoff bound/ better teams.

I have also never said I don't like Robertson or that he sucks. Just because I think it's best he is traded for help elsewhere or draft capital/ prospect doesn't mean I hate him as a player or think he sucks. I have never said to trade him for the sake of it either. As you said, he has bad giveaways and easily knocked off the puck as well. The debate I was having with Mackin was that Mackin said you cannot trade Robertson and it is foolish to do so. My stance is / was that Robertson has done nothing to show he is untouchable as I already explained. If he was producing against the tougher teams, I would have given him credit for that and said he steps up in tougher games because it would be a fact. But that isn't the case. If you think saying what I have said is being overly harsh on Robertson, ok.

18 Apr 2024 19:51:01
RLF
I know we debate many points. We see many things differently.

I have never stated that you think NR “sucks” or is “untouchable”; those are your words so why get yourself in a frenzy by inventing things.

It is clear however that NR is not your favourite; it’s obvious by your responses.

I also don’t think Robertson should be traded as yet but I would certainly listen. He has a good skill set and can correct his defensive lapses. Unlike offence, defence can be taught.

As far as a trade goes, I would not favour draft capital. IMO NR is an NHLer while a future draft pick might not be.

RLF, as you hopefully understand, anyone can find small bits of data to support an argument. That doesn’t make it true. Unfortunately we will have to wait for LeafLand to know what they have in NR.

So we disagree which is normally healthy.

Can’t we just leave it there or do you feel the need yet again to have the final word.

I leave that to you.

15 Apr 2024 02:11:06
Tree adds another hulking dman this one being a leafs pick in 2016 6'6 225 and shoots right. My only question is why didn't the leafs sign him before? He has always been a point producer by the looks of it anyone see anything on the reasoning?

15 Apr 2024 14:47:40
Goat. Yes, we are seeing Tree start to put his stamp on what he wants to build. He took some time to evaluate and didn't panic due to fan pressure. He is trying to build for every year and not just this one. Smart of him. imo

As for not signing Mattinen. I think it is a s simple as Dubas didn't really value big, hulking D-men. Tree also signed Chas Sharpe to a Marlies contract. 20 year old right shot D-man that is 6'3" 195lb point producer from Orillia.

Not sure anyone else has noticed, but Tree has signed a lot of Canadians. Bert, Domi, Benoit, Mattinen, Sharpe, McMann, Reaves, Gregor, Quillan, Lajoie and Chadwick. I don't think that is a coincidence.

15 Apr 2024 18:23:47
I’m definitely interested in what he will do this offseason now that he’s seen a full year.