Leafs Talk

07 May 2026 15:02:30
So I had a interesting conversation last night with a group of buddies regarding if you had the choice of McKenna and Stenberg. It isn't that I hate McKenna... there is just something there that doesn't totally grab me. Anyway that always has been my opinion and doesn't match everyones of course. The other 4 guys it was interesting. 3 of them said McKenna and One used the word that has been used on here a few times on both sides of the site "Stud" and one used the words "Generational Player". None of the 3 really had major compelling things other than look at his numbers. The last buddy that spoke was interesting and had quite the argument in favour of Stenberg. First thing he said was To use numbers as a true comparison. Frondell played in the Swedish Hockey League like Stenberg and is a year older and was 4 points behind Stenberg 33 to 29 so both did very well and Frondell stepped into Chicagos lineup and was dynamite. So that was his first argument then he gave us numbers I had not delved deep into but were interesting.

He said with College players NHL teams look most specifically how the player fared against the best teams in their specific Conferences. He said McKenna's total numbers in his Conference were 38 points in 24 games. Which was impressive when he said it. However he said 25 of those points were in 12 games against 3 teams not ranked in the top 20 and 13 of the points were in 12 games against the 3 teams in the Top 20. All other 3 guys all left really and thinking hard and I left totally convinced. I drove him home and he said "OH don't forget...his penalty cost us in a huge game at the WJC and in his final College game the biggest game of the year for them.... he was a-3 with 2 shots and his giveaway was the game turning play. " I thought I did research but my buddy puts me to shame. If we keep the 1st bring on Either Stenberg or Verhoeff.

07 May 2026 15:54:52
Truthfully, if Matthews is here, I think McKenna make sense he’s Marner 2.0 with maybe more upside… The things I worry about with his are not his play, but it’s things like the lack of winning he’s done. It’s about adding another star player that lacks jam. Do the Leafs want to fall into that trap again?

07 May 2026 18:15:36
I honestly don't get the McKenna criticism, especially the reference to a lack of aggression or willingness to engage physically. He just turned 18 in late December. Instead of playing another year of junior where he would dominate (129 pts in 56 games as a 16/17 year old), he decided to go play against men in the NCAA. For one, let's not pretend the SHL is as physical as the NCAA Division 1 hockey. No one points that out when comparing him with Stenberg.
He was only 17 start of the year. His physical game picked up dramatically as the season progressed. We saw at the World Juniors he has a bit of an edge to him. He also had to put up with other Uni's crowds constantly taunting him about being overrated etc. Including a ton of stuff on Social Media. Instead of whining about the constant criticism about his game, he sought help on how to improve those areas and got better. I severely doubt that Stenberg was constantly taunted by fans or had anywhere the scrutiny of his game in the SHL as McKenna has had to put up with. Pointing out which teams he scored the most against in the NCAA is interesting if the same scrutiny was applied to Stenberg, in which Stenberg picked up many of his points against the bottom half teams in the SHL.

He had 21 against teams that finished 8th to 14th and only 12 against the other top 6 teams (Frolunda being in 2nd). McKenna put up 51 in 35 games as a 17/18 year old, which is very impressive. He finished 2nd in points per game in the Division 1. Stenberg was tied for 4th on his team. McKenna had 14 points in 7 games at the World Juniors. Stenberg 10 in 7.
McKenna's vision and hockey IQ is off the charts. He will push back physically, unlike Marner. He works hard to improve himself and his game. There shouldn't be a lot of entitlement in him since he grew up in Whitehorse and had to move away from home (BC iirc) at a young age to get better competition. This kid had to work hard to get where he is. Stenberg, to my knowledge, has been within 40 minutes of his parents throughout his whole playing time in Sweden.
One of the two has sacrificed a lot more to get where he is than the other has. I want that kid.

07 May 2026 18:37:24
Very nice write up RLF.
No doubt in my mind McKenna goes #1OA.

07 May 2026 20:12:15
No argument in regards to the physical nature of the NCAA to the SHL but it is hard to compare the two because the overall caliber of the SHL is much higher in skill than the NCAA. I won't do a long pos but saying because Stenberg has been within 40 minutes of his parents doesn't mean he has not had to work as hard to get to this point of being a top rated player. While Stenberg didn't get subjected to razzing he was subjected to being somewhat ostracized by his teammates for the first part of the season.

Apparently this is common over there as older players resent young guys taking a friend's spot and possibly their spot on the team. So there you have to prove yourself in a hurry or you find yourself on the outside all year in the dressing room. All these kids have different routes to where they are. I respect you have the passion to stick up for McKenna and we all will have our opinions of each player.

07 May 2026 20:52:20
I didn't say work as hard, I said one sacrificed more. I believe McKenna moved away at 12. Then moved even farther this year by going to the States play NCAA. That is a bigger personal sacrifice than joining a team with your brother and staying within a short drive of your parents if you need them. Point was, Stenberg has always had family support close at hand. McKenna was on his own a lot and didn't let any of that stop him.

My post was more about the scrutiny he is getting compared to Stenberg. McKenna has to constantly prove he deserves to continue to be the number 1 pick. Stenberg doesn't have that pressure. Plus he lives and plays in Sweden, away from the North American market. You have pumped Stenberg's tires for a while. It was time someone pumped McKenna's tires and remind us all why this guy is so highly touted. I respect your passion for Stenberg as well.

07 May 2026 20:59:58
I will add though. That decision to go play against men instead of dominating in Junior had nothing to do with earning $700,000 right? :o)

07 May 2026 21:46:57
Always good and cordial debates either RLF. I like that. Stenberg had a different pressure in that, that same brother was a 1st round draft pick so he has always been that guy at every level of hockey “Oh you are Otto’s brother”. That is not an easy spot to be. Sometimes even more pressure to perform.

09 May 2026 01:14:58
Craig Button said McKenna is clear cut number 1
So I’ll go with that over 4 buddies hashing it out.

09 May 2026 01:32:14
Craig Button the worst general manager in Flames history. Lol.

09 May 2026 15:10:00
I wasn't going to comment on the Otto Stenberg brother pressure, but in the end, I can't help it. Lol
Being Otto Stenberg's brother is a lot of pressure and can be even more to perform than what McKenna had. Seriously? Let's not act like Otto is some highly touted prospect like Ivar. He was the 25th overall pick. He's showed no real point production improvement this year in the A.

He projects as a 2nd/3rd line winger. Are you honestly trying to say that being Otto's brother was more pressure on Ivar growing up than McKenna being a phenom in Canada? C'mon man, I know you are doing your best to prove Stenberg is the better pick, but this is a massive reach.

09 May 2026 15:45:05
Did you grown up with successful brothers and everyone assumed you were going to be like them. I did. Two different fields of life. I can speak from experience it is no picnic. I am not saying any of this to prove Stenberg is the better pick. I am just saying on your part don't make him out to be some oh poor poor me scenario. He was paid very well to play there this year and was he away from his family? Sure he was but they made it to quite a few games.

There were also quite a few other players on that team from far away places. As well as literally every university team that had players that were far away from their homes. It is a sacrifice they give willingly, not forcefully. They all make sacrifices to get to this level.

09 May 2026 17:08:05
Suffering. We aren't comparing NCAA players to each other. We are comparing Stenberg and McKenna. No need to dirty the water saying most NCAA players are away from home. Most are, yet most aren't 17 though. Yes, I have an older brother I was compared to. And? Ivar is considered better than his brother. I can relate to that. I got to higher levels in hockey than my brother, even though he did well. You know who it was hard on more than me? My brother. We are 4 years apart and he was always getting teased about his little brother is/or going to be better.

It wasn't that difficult for me except to reach the expectations people had on me.
Yes, McKenna got paid. Rumour is $700K. Guesstimates on Stenberg was over $400K US this year in the SHL. How come you don't mention him getting paid as part of the reason he went to the SHL, yet say money motivated McKenna. Pretty sure a chance to get paid to play had something to do with Ivar going to the SHL.
Anyhow, I'm not going back and forth on this. Logically speaking, I can't see how one can compare the two paths and say Stenberg has had a tougher go. You do. All good.

09 May 2026 17:19:57
Please provide your source on Stenberg Salary.

09 May 2026 17:38:17
My mistake. That was his performance value I read and not his actual salary. His real pay is estimated closer to $50K. I was wrong on his pay.

09 May 2026 18:00:11
Acknowleged.

06 May 2026 01:53:50
Would like to hear everyone’s thoughts on who we should pick. I’m leaning towards a D-man. Chase Reid or Verheoff might be the way to go. We need a puck moving offensive D that can skate.

I look at it as who would you rather from MTL in playoffs if you can only pick one between Caulfied and Hudson. These D have way more impact on the game and very hard to acquire via a trade.

06 May 2026 02:29:28
You draft McKenna. No question about it. Throw a bag at Raddysh and hope he continues his play and becomes our number one.

06 May 2026 03:37:16
Definitely sign McKenna and trade Knies or Cowan, plus whatever else for a top pairing Dman.
Maybe trade with Dallas (need to make space for resigning Robertson), plus Dallas already has 2 solid LD Hieskanen & Bischel
Knies or Cowan, Carlo, Robertson and 2027 1st (Colorado)
For
Harley & Bourque.

06 May 2026 08:57:00
What??? McKenna is a complete stud you have to draft him. The only way I’d take a d is if we move down for a good haul from Vancouver and get a top prospect and the 3rd pick for 1. But still m taking McKenna 100 percent of the time.

06 May 2026 09:06:22
I was hoping the Leafs would of landed at 3 and it would have negated this conversation but you’re right the Leafs have never had that stud dman which is why I said trade out of number one but I can’t help to this what could McKenna be here in Toronto my biggest issue with him is he’s a winger.

06 May 2026 12:40:25
@ Goat2.0 I was hoping for #1 because of that potential of trading the pick for a asset and still getting a very good player. The depth of the Dmen this year is insane. None of them are a Matthew Schaeffer or a Landon Dupont coming next year but the depth is insane. You could put them as dice in a cup shake it and probably not be disappointed at which one rolls closest to you. In no particular order, Verhoeff, Reid, Carels, Lin, Rudolph and last but by far certainly not least Smits.

Smits actually is the least talked about because we don't get to see him hardly at all. He is a beast. I remember watching him with my Son-in-law when the WJC were on this year and we both went. "Who in hell is this guy? He is massive." and he could skate and play great D. 5 points for Latvia at the worlds. Played in the under 20 league in Finland and dominated and got called up to play in the Finnish Elite League and got 13 points in 38 games.

Their season ended so they lend him to EHC Munchen in Germany where he got 1 point in 5 games but then got 6 points in 11 playoff games. And let's not forget during this crazy season for him he also played in the Olympics for Latvie and got 2 points.

He is a guy that has flown under the radar to us North Americans, but I'll tell you he might be the sleeper of the draft. He has shown he doesn't care where he plays, he will adapt and adapt very very quickly and well. If the right team offered the right roster player and swapped their pick with us in the 6 to 8 spot he would be there I think. We know that McKenna and Stenberg and Malholtra will the 3 forwards that go in the top 7 or 8 which leaves 5 defensemen so no-one in top 8 will go home disappointed this year.

06 May 2026 19:18:31
It's McKenna imo. I would look to try and move Matthews if he doesn't want to be here to who that will be in the spot to draft Verheoff (2-5).

06 May 2026 21:34:00
I have to agree with some of you. To get a haul for a trade to move down 2-3 spots. Target Chase Reid or Verheoff. We need that Lane Hudson/Hughes/Makar style defenceman. We have the two way D and stay at home D. We just need this puck mover (PP) D and a tough guy on top 6 and it would be a complete package.

When teams get these guys, they are not trading them away. I know Raddysh is out there but why would he want to come Toronto and how much is he gonna want? 32 teams are going to be after that guy. @Tags Knies should be untouchable. A guy like him is almost as valuable as a RHD that can put up points.

06 May 2026 23:59:52
TML winning the lottery has certainly opened up the dialogue and have to admit that I’ve read some very creative trade proposals since the lottery.

Many are well-thought out and have merit but I think TML, if they pick McKenna which I expect they do, will need to make is sending Mattias Maccelli.

Adding McKenna, a generational offensive player, at 5.11 and 170 is a look-alike to Maccelli, Cowan and Robertson. Talent and skill are important but we need to balance this “look” with other things.

NJD need a top6 forward and we need a two-way Dman. The Devils are rumoured ready to trade Simon Nemec if they can’t offload Hamilton. Let’s see if we can augment the blue line by giving NJD what they need.

Or send Maccelli to the Kraken for their R2 2026 (#38). A great return when compared to the R3 2027 that we gave up to get Maccelli.

I think Maccelli ended the year well for TML and his trade value is high.

05 May 2026 23:20:12
Wooo 1st pick.

02 May 2026 13:37:21
Well Suffering, Marner came through big in a series clinching game with 2 goals and an assist. Most on here would wish he did it for Toronto as well.
Torts said it was his best game of the series and that he looked comfortable on the ice.

I guess Torts wanted him to do more offensively after all, since his best game is the one he produced in.

02 May 2026 12:47:31
@RLF We sure Mitchy doesn't check this site? Lol.

I watched a lot of that game and he looked better than I have ever seen him in Toronto. If he keeps playing like that night in and night out he will win a cup in his career for sure.

02 May 2026 13:27:13
LL. Apparently he was checking into the Vegas sites for the last 3 years. lol

02 May 2026 14:37:43
Make fun of him all you want. He did something incredible this year though.... He outscored the whole complete team of the Leafs in the Playoffs by himself. lol lol

03 May 2026 05:44:31
@auffering, who made fun of him?

I commented that he will win a cup because he played such an epic game and I wish he did so with the Leafs. Where in that comment did you read any degradation towards Marner?

I enjoy your insights on many things, but you need to calm down with the high strung comments.

RLF and I made a joke about the guy, after commenting about his amazing game.

Chill buddy.

03 May 2026 11:24:49
I’m chill. My post was also in jest hence the lol. I wasn’t poking fun at you it was in reply to RLF with the checking the Vegas sites comments. I followed a fun poke with a fun poke. I have no issue with you guys at all. Now a few others on here make me roll my eyes. All good dudes. Enjoy the weekend.

01 May 2026 08:54:00
I can't be the only one here that's been watching these playoffs thinking about Marner.

Mitchy has been a non-factor through 5 games as one of the highest paid forwards in the NHL.

I understand why everyone is saying Mitch leaving is what tanked the Leafs, but watching his performance with a new team has to also show that even making the playoffs with Marner, nothing would have changed (not that he had a good reg.

season either though).

I am still happy with (in a round about way) getting a first for Marner's expiring contract. He's still the same choke artist that needs an elite centre in order to thrive, he was in Toronto.

01 May 2026 12:20:37
Agree with pretty much everything LL. Except, I actually don't understand how people would think Marner leaving would tank the Leafs. Put simply, the team underperformed. They should have been a solid enough team and not a bottom 5 team. Coaching may have had something to do with it, but this is on the players.

01 May 2026 12:50:09
@LeafsLife...Do you mean he is a non factor because of his point production? If so, then you have missed what Tortorella is doing. He has been movning Marner around from line to line as he line matches and has Marner playing in a shutdown roll and maxing him as well on the PK. He said when he got there that is what he wanted from Marner and he has bought into it. He might only in some people's eyes have 4 assists in 5 games but his last one when he and Howden tagged-teamed along the boards to turn the puck over for the OT winner by Howden was huge.

If you watch, there was no player on the ice as excited as Marner.

I agree with RLF that the onus in Toronto was on the players. I am not a Berube fan but he is not the one who has had Matthews Shooting percentage drop nor Matthews' Shot speed drop consistently in the last 4 years.

01 May 2026 13:50:01
I have not watched every Vegas game, not going to pretend I have, but statistically speaking, it doesn't match up with a shut down role and being maxxed on the PK.
Marner is getting his 20+ mins a night. He has just over 7 mins of PK time in 5 games (about 1:30 per game), which isn't much. Compare that to over 20 mins of PP time (4 mins per game). His 5 on 5 zone starts are over 58% O-zone. Dowd, Scissions and Smith get heavily weighted D-zone starts at even strength. Marner has 0 even strength points. 2 assists on the PP and 2 assists on the PK (last 2 games).


He is getting shut down at even strength, which is pretty much what happened in Toronto and most complained about. Only 7 shots on net at even strength, 5 hits, 3 blocks, 1 takeaway and 2 giveaways. Those are not star stats by any means. Compare that to Eichel who has 6 even strength points in 5 games and 8 overall. It's not whether Marner is a good player imo, because he is. It's about whether he can up his game in the playoffs, which he doesn't. His point production drops off and he becomes very average at 5 on 5 play in the playoffs. That hasn't changed in Vegas so far.

01 May 2026 14:23:22
Torts loves him and is using him in 5 on 5 shutdown role. He is a +2 five on five. On specialty teams, he is doing a great job. Vegas has 3 PP goals; he assisted on 2 of them. On PK, they have 2 goals and he assisted on both.

People can love or hate him, but he has been given a role by Torts and, for such a hard coach to please, he is doing that role well. I have watched all the games and he is working and skating hard every shift.

01 May 2026 14:42:31
Suffering, would you pay a player $12.5M to be a shutdown guy? Of course not. I didn't say he has been a big liability, but like it or not, he is paid to produce. There is no way Vegas wouldn't want to see more production, creating more opportunities and game control from him.

He's getting over 20 mins a night. It isn't all just to shut the other team down 5 on 5 and be good on special teams. You can pay a guy half his money to do that. He is supposed to be one of the best playmakers in the League and in his prime.

01 May 2026 16:48:09
If the goal was to win a cup, I would use anyone in any position to do it regardless of salary. We are talking about Torts and his system is not and never has been freewheeling. Don’t forget that Vegas was in danger of falling out of the playoffs with a GAA of 3.07 under Cassidy.

Torts stepped in, got them into playoffs with GAA in last 8 games of 1.88.

You might not like Marner RLF but the point is Torts and his teammates there do.

01 May 2026 17:28:07
Suffering. When did I say I don't like Marner? I actually said he is a good player.
You understand the narrative you are trying to sell. Basically you are saying Vegas trades Roy to Toronto so they can give Marner 8 years at $12.5M and then turn him into the player they traded away to get him that was making $3M. Pretty sure that wasn't the plan.
His coach and teammates in Toronto seemed to like him too. Neither is Berube's system freewheeling.

Not sure what that has to do with him having no even strength points in 5 games and you somehow knowing that is what Vegas is happy with and his coach wants. I'm not in management meetings and the dressing room and neither are you. No one knows for certain, as much as you want to have me believe you know, that Vegas is happy with Marner not producing as long as he isn't getting beat defensively.

01 May 2026 19:07:55
Maybe I am a fool. But if they win this series, if I was coaching, I would love that he played how I told him to and was +2 on five on five even without points. But got us 2 shorthanded goals with his assists. A lot of players would not check their egos and do that role. He and Howden are doing their job to line match and let Eichel's line get some free reign to get their points. Eichel has one goal but no-one is calling for his head.

I remember last year when Marner had 13 points and 2 goals and Matthews had 11 points and 3 goals. All the fingers pointed at Marner but it was only a minor push back on the magic goal scorer Matthews. Crazy part is Marner is now playing his most intense hockey I have seen him play and people who are not even Vegas fans are criticizing his lack of production.

01 May 2026 21:24:16
It's that you are trying soooo hard to give him credit. You also just said he is now playing the most intense hockey you have ever seen him play and then complain Toronto fans got in him. You just admitted he is trying harder in Vegas. Eichel is no more a goal scorer than Marner. They both get 25-30 a year on average and both weigh heavily on assists for points.


You say I have bias against Marner, yet you are trying so hard to say a point producer who doesn't produce in the playoffs is somehow still playing a major role because of his defensive numbers. The bias is obvious my friend.

01 May 2026 21:37:47
Ok you win. He is playing horrible and they should bench him. That will teach him a lesson for playing 200 foot hockey in the playoffs as instructed. :o)

01 May 2026 22:00:40
Quick question for you RLF. How many points do you feel Marner should have right now in the playoffs to justify his contract?

01 May 2026 22:25:20
Again, I never said he was playing horrible. It was about him not creating or producing much. Being a playoff non factor. Then you came in saying we are obviously missing how he is being used and how effective he really is and how everyone and the coach love how he is playing. Fact is, he is not producing in the playoffs again and people can't say it's a Toronto thing. If he is as motivated as you say, would have been nice to see him that way in Toronto.

Let's see if he produces in game 6/7 because he never did here. It's not just a points thing and you know that. I get you want me to say a certain points number so you can say he got those kind of points in Toronto and people still complained. You're looking for a gotcha moment, but don't consider 0 even strength points in 5 games as a valid argument that he is a offensive non factor again.

01 May 2026 23:15:08
You even just said "It's not just a points thing" but then you say it is the 0 even strength points. So then what is it he has to do to impress you? He is playing incredible defense and getting shorthanded points (none bigger than the assist in Overtime in Game 5 and power play points).



So are they calling to run Connor McDavid out of town because he had only two 5 on 5 points with no goals out of his 6 points and he was a -8 on 5 on 5?

02 May 2026 00:18:11
Nice try. I'm done.

29 Apr 2026 03:23:12
So it's going to be Sundin as president of hockey ops and Chayka as GM.

I never would have predicted this. Sending with zero experience and Chayka having been out of the league for years.

When people said they wanted to go in a different direction I guess Pelley agreed.

This could be the most insane, worst decision of upper management in Leafs history or a great, outside the box choice.

29 Apr 2026 15:40:40
If this ends up true, I would think we will also see an experienced advisor also hired.

30 Apr 2026 09:21:39
Truthfully Pelley will set this franchise back to before Auston Matthews. I sincerely hope we get Scott White over Chayka. Also sounding like Berube has a good chance of being back, which is another strike.