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31 Jul 2022 03:54:32
I have to ask this question (hard to follow RLF and Rsearss lol)


What's the deal with Muzzin? Why does everyone want him gone so badly without a replacement?

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Holl
Sandin-Lili

Murray Samsonov is the entire back half of the ice people think wins a cup? It just isn't accurate.

If you want Muzzin gone, you need a top 4-D to replace him. That doesn't include a 100yo and a rookie with turnover issues or Justin Holl either.

What's the plan if he is moved tomorrow for a 2nd? Who plays defence in front of two struggling goalies? Nobody? Randy plays D with RLF and Rsearss inf don't of him? It won't end well.

I really need someone to explain this rationale to me.

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31 Jul 2022 04:34:40
Randy plays goalie and Rsears/ RLF in front of him*.

31 Jul 2022 04:45:11
Me and Rsears on D would be a disaster. Lol

I don't get the thought that it is Muzzin that has to go. It seems knee jerk based on one season.

As I have said, I still think a GM could improve the team more by moving Nylander than Muzzin. Muzzin can be moved next off season if things don't work out as his ntc becomes a m-ntc and he is on the last year of his deal. Or move Kerfoot and Holl instead.

Just my opinion.

31 Jul 2022 07:07:56
@RLF we disagree about some things, but here we always seem to agree.

Moving Muzzin for futures and expecting a better team just seems insane to me. Sandin and Gio aren't Muzzin. He isn't what he used to be, but who replaces him? If it's Sandin or Gio we have a serious issue.

31 Jul 2022 10:00:55
Once you find a stay at home shutdown dman to play with muzzin everyone will see it wasn’t a decline in his play at all but his lack of a good nhl dman partner.

When you start doing too much out of your own comfort zone mistakes start to happen. I truely believe this is muzzin playing with a declining holl.

Put muzzin in a position to succeed and we will see Leafs gain a top 4 dman once again without dealing muzzin to do so.

31 Jul 2022 13:27:42
So my turn to weigh in and yes I’d be terrible as a Dman.

First we ALL accept that the Leafs need to shed some salary.

Waiving Simmonds and Clifford are easy wins but they produce only minor savings. Same for Anderson but you’d get some level of return.

Similarly for Holl and perhaps Kerfoot.

Nylander and Muzzin are where the real money is.

The problem right now is 10 teams are over the cap and several others ready to go over with their next signing.

So not many choices, especially with Anaheim inking Klingberg.

My choice, as you know, is Muzzin because of his age and what I see as a serious declining performance. His mobility or lack thereof doesn’t put any fear in a forward coming down his side. You have to be able to move fluidly to execute a body check.

We will miss Lyubushkin and I’d like to see the Leafs for once get a return prior to a player becoming a free agent.

Having said that Nylander does offer an opportunity for the biggest return, whatever that might be?

I’m okay trading both but my priority is Muzzin. I still think we may need to outscore opponents this year given the questions surrounding goaltending.

But the issue of how to get cap compliant while improving our chances to win the Cup is worthy of discussion, dialogue and yes debate over different points of view!

31 Jul 2022 13:31:39
@LL
I agree Giordano does not replace Muzzin but @$800k I was accepting of the signing.
I’d like somehow to get Larsson or Mayfield on our D as a physical factor and both are RD.
Any ideas?

31 Jul 2022 14:12:00
The real loss was Boosh. He allowed Brodie to play with Muzzin and Gio 3rd pair with whoever necessary.
As for Holl, he is back to playing with indecision which kept him in the minors in the first place. He is scared to move the puck while under pressure for making a mistake. I watched that happen alot from him in the minors.

31 Jul 2022 21:28:40
@Rsears seems like you still just want 80s hockey lol.

It was exciting, I'll give you that.

@RLF I have been thinking about Boosh since he left. Everyone always said they want a, big, stay at home, modern Scott Stevens to destroy people coming across the Blueline. That was Boosh. He's moder day Scott Stevens or as close as we will ever see again.

Maybe he refused to sign here or maybe Dubas didn't value him. Who knows. If it's on Dubas though, fire him yesterday.

01 Aug 2022 00:29:20
Haha.

Doesn’t everyone like watching goals being scored?

I’m hoping like heck that Murray bounces back and becomes a true number 1 capable of giving us Cup potential. I also hope Samsonov provides more than adequate backup.

If so the team will do more than win one playoff series!

26 Jul 2022 13:27:53
The talk about squeezing more out of teams in trades for Nylander based on he is a point producer and on a great contract is a hot topic. Not just on here, but in general. Is Nylander's contract that great though? I have shown many comparables that show, no it isn't.

Fact. Last season, he ranked 301st amongst all skaters in the NHL in cost per point. 60th among right wingers. That's right, 60th!
Out of those 60 RW's, only 12 were on their ELC's. That puts Willy 48th among RW's in cost per point that are not on ELC contracts. And no, there is no player that only played like 10 games or something ahead of him.

BTW, Bunting is 2nd best cost per point amongst LW's. Engvall and Mikheyev both ranked higher than Willy on cost per point (as did other Leafs). Bunting is easily the Leafs best contract.

I bring this up because of those that feel a deal of Nylander for Crouse, McBain and a 2nd is not enough for Nylander. Crouse ranked 40th in LW cost per point. Remove the 9 ELC's and he was 31st. Another target of mine, Trenin, was 15th.

This does not take into account the other intangibles that they don't or do have. Strictly cost per point because it is argued that because of Willy's great contract he holds a very high value.

I stick by my value.

Nylander to ARZ for Crouse, McBain and a 2nd.

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26 Jul 2022 20:41:05
Makes sense what you’re saying but still doesn’t make any of those players better than nylander and they wouldn’t make the leafs better just my opinion and to be fair the leafs can’t use the cap saving now that most of the quality players are gone.

26 Jul 2022 21:02:44
L1994. I am not saying all those players are better, nor was I trying to insinuate they were. The fact still remains that there are much better value RW's than Nylander. Free agent signings are not the only time you can use cap space I am sure you realize that. Teams have RFA's they don't have cap room for etc. Say you make the Arz deal and now have the cap room to also add a 2nd pair RD or a guy like Necas because the Leafs don't have to send out cap to make the deal work.
Are the Leafs not better with Crouse, Necas and McBain over Nylander alone? I believe the Leafs would be.

26 Jul 2022 23:51:59
This entire narrative comes from Dubas signing bad contracts. Mathews isn't overpaid, but he only got 5 years which is an issue. JT is overpaid, always has been, because he was a UFA. Marner is definitely overpaid. He was a machine this season, but he still shouldn't be making that much.

When we compare all of them to Nylander, he looks like a bargain.

27 Jul 2022 12:01:55
@ I agree with that LL. Considering Matthews scored almost twice as many goals as Nylander in less games and for less than double Nylander's pay, shouldn't he be a bargain contract too? lol

I don't know how many times I hear on the sports media (TV or radio) that Nylander's contract is a bargain. I even started to think maybe it was. Then I did some real research and of course it is not.

27 Jul 2022 22:12:50
@RLF good point lol.

JT is a 30/ 70 kind of guy making 11
Marner is 30/ 90 makes almost 11
Nylander had 34 goals and 80 points making 6.9

In a vacuum, this looks like a steal of a contract. It's casual observers just looking at straight stats.

28 Jul 2022 01:16:28
@RLF
I have stated previously that we see many things in a similar light but I’m disappointed in how you use this metric.

It’s really quite silly!

Based on your cost per point argument we should try and trade Marner and Matthews whose cost per point are both 25% higher and rank 421 and 412 respectively.

Using this metric we would shy away from McDavid who sits at 366, Hyman at 368, Ovechkin at 383 and others like Kane and Crosby.

We would seek Alex Galchenyuk at 74, Sam Gagner ay 43 and AlexanderBarabonov at 37.

Having said this, I don’t mind your trade but I stick by position that Muzzin is the first player that needs to go. BTW did you look at his cost per point?

28 Jul 2022 04:01:10
Rsears. I am disappointed you went this direction. I have stated many times that Dubas got had on Matthews and Marner as well. The argument that Nylander's contract is a bargain is what I have issue with. How about Pasta, Teravienen, Ehlers, Fiala, Forsberg etc. All players paid under Willy's $7.5M and performed better, as good or close to for less. That is not including other on ice factors than just points.

Like I have said before, how many teams have won the Cup with a player like Willy in their top 6 taking up cap like he does? Good luck with your research in finding many/ any.

28 Jul 2022 11:23:16
Rsears. Take a look at how Willy gets his points as well. He feasts off of PP time. 31 of his 80 pts came on the PP. That is 39% of his points.
Matthews 29 of his 106 pts on the PP. Marner 25 of his 97 pts on the PP. Fiala 17 of 85. Pasta 26 of 77. Forsberg 27 of 84. Forsberg 9 of 55. Sid 30 of 84. Ovi 29 of 90. Kane 31 of 92.
Teravainen is the only one who gets a higher share of his points on the PP than Willy. 31 of 65. Of course he doesn't get paid near as much either.

My point is solely on Nylander's contract being "great" and a "bargain". I am just showing facts to support that it is not the bargain people believe it is. Look up how many RW's that cost less per pt than Willy, but still had at least 20 goals. There are 16 RW's not on ELC's that scored at least 20 goals with a lower cost per point than Willy. Those are just the players listed as full time RW's, not even the ones under centre category, but play RW.

It is a false narrative is all I am saying. Nothing to do with Willy's talent. As I said, this doesn't take into account any other factors. But when you add in things like physicality, drive, if they can PK, willing to block shots, hit, whether they make lazy line changes causing odd man rushes against etc, Willy is no bargain. He is a $9M talent that rarely plays like one.

He's like Kessel. It's funny, the Leafs were never winning a Cup with Kessel as a star on the team, yet history has taught Leaf nation nothing I guess because many seem to still think the Leafs can do it with Nylander as a main piece.

28 Jul 2022 12:24:21
Had you stated he was on a bargain contract at the beginning versus stating not on a great contract I might have chosen not to take this position.

He was 33rd in NHL scoring last year and 83rd in league salary so I think it’s fair to state that he’s a definite bargain.

You state he’s a $9m talent but has a AAV of $6.96m so that alone suggests he’s a bargain.

Nylander, we can agree, is not a consistent player and frustrates fans as much as any player and yes there are other players on bargain contracts (which should not eliminate Nylander) like Patranak whose cost per point is within $500 of Nylander’s!

You state other data for your position on Nylander and they represent better support for your argument than cost per point!

IMO it is a meaningless indicator of talent and should not be used to evaluate talent. And we both know Bunting was a good point producer because of who he played with.

I’m not against moving Nylander and I don’t argue that Nylander could be part of the Leafs solution in getting cap compliant and also fetch a decent return.

I stated I didn’t mind your trade proposal but feel strongly (based on sound judgement that Muzzin should be the first to go) .

Hoping that Muzzin returns to normal play is not a sound rationale reason for retaining him.

He simply is not the physical player he once was; I saw many instances where he was out-muscled and out-battled. Very few players are frightened to come down his side of the ice because his mobility is significantly limited.

It’s time to trade him for any return because the Leafs will have a non-movable asset in the following year.

28 Jul 2022 17:23:04
Well, if a great contract doesn't relate to what they are paid compared to how they preform, than what does? Isn't that the basis of how contracts are evaluated for great, good, ok, poor etc. I have used the two terms great and bargain synonomously many times.

You are muddying the waters on the comparisons. I have compared Willy to other RW's only. You want to use every players contracts. He does not play centre (rarely I guess), LW, defence or goalie. Plus, I used Nylander's recent year which is his career year. I think that is very fair since he has been on the same contract for a few years where he produced less and therefore cost more per point.

Among RW's Nylander was 14th in ppg and 13th in cap hit. All forwards he was 49th in ppg and 50th on cap hit. Everyone seems to forget that Willy is signed for $7.5M per, his cap hit is less because he held out and his first year was a cap hit over $10M which dropped the remaining years to $6.96M. He was a $10M player the first year of his contract and he stunk that year. At his true $7.5M he would be 34th on cap hit and 49th in ppg on forwards. RW he is 10th cap hit and 14th in ppg.

Now if you take into consideration that most players ahead of him in cap hit are players who have multiple UFA years in their contracts, which are the years that cost the most, it isn't even just getting your money worth in Nylander. When Willy hits UFA status, he is going to be wanting a big raise, If he gets $9M and puts up 80 pts, he would have been 19th in cap hit and 49th in ppg on the forwards list.

I also said this has nothing to do with how good or bad a player he is. Is is strictly about is he on a great contract or not. The fact is he isn't. At best, you could say he is fair value for what he gets paid. I said he is a $9M talent, but rarely uses it. How does that alone suggest a $6.96M cap hit is a bargain? If he doesn't use it, he isn't worth it.

You brought up Bunting and who he plays with helps his points. Since Willy gets about 40% of his points on the PP, you don't think who he plays with helped that total greatly. If Willy was on the 2nd PP unit, I doubt he would have broke 70 pts last season. Would he still be a great contract with 68 pts? That still would have been a career high.

It also had nothing to do with Muzzin or who the Leafs should trade. It was about Willy's perceived value and whether he is on a great/ bargain contract or not.

28 Jul 2022 21:26:39
Whether Nylander is on a fair contract, bargain contract or great contract we all have our opinions!

But to use cost per point, as you brought up, to support your position is utter nonsense!

There are 175 Centerman ahead of Matthews and McDavid!

28 Jul 2022 22:57:57
As you said, we all have an opinion and not to take into account production per pay as a major factor in determining a contracts value seems naive or maybe doesn't support a narrative that one has.

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but there are not 175 centreman ahead of McDavid and Matthews on cost per point. Plus McDavid was first and Matthews 3rd in points for centremen. On Value of contract, McKinnon, Lindholm and Barkov for instance would be bargains. McDavid and Matthews do not have bargain contracts nor did I or do you hear people generally say they are. So why are you bringing them up. Or Muzzin and his pts per cost.

To me, you are just coming up with ridiculous rebuttals because you want Muzzin traded and I guess need to support that by discounting factual numbers on Nylander. By the way, your evaluation that Muzzin is basically done is just speculation. The guy was injured all year so how do you expect him to play at his best level. I am not saying he isn't declining, but last I saw in the playoffs, he looked pretty good.

29 Jul 2022 00:48:31
RLF, I believe you were the one to first bring up cost per point. You stated Nylander was 391 overall and 60th for RWs; I logically used your methodology for others.

I used the same site as you did and simply counted every player who was listed as a C. The ranking I gave was NOT manufactured by me.

I’m sorry you cannot see fit to use your own argument or ridiculous rebuttals, as you call them, with either Matthews or McDavid.

Yes I do feel Muzzin should be traded and yes he was hurt with two concussions and something else. All the more of a reason to find a buyer for him.

Just to be clear I am not opposed to trading Nylander but my preference is to trade Muzzin.

As to speculation it’s based on observation of his year. Yes he had a decent playoff as I have said before which should translate to a good trade time.

Someone has to go, Muzzin is my choice while Nylander is your choice.

I’m sorry you feel offended by my disagreeing with you. You should not take it personally.

29 Jul 2022 12:33:37
LOL.
I am not offended that you are disagreeing with me. I could care less if you do. What I am doing is trying to explain to you that you are taking this to a place that I did not. Not sure why you keep going to the places you do.

Yes, I brought up cost per point on Nylander based on his trade value because many are saying that he has a greater trade value because he is on a great contract and even the best contract on the Leafs. ie; he is worth more because he is worth more than he is paid/ cap hit.

Go back to my original post and re-read the first paragraph because that is what I was talking about and even said I have shown by using comparables in the past that he isn't worth more than his current contract. I was adding more info to support what I had already said. Nylander is not on a great contract if you take all factors into account.

If I was saying that cost per point is the be all end all as you keep suggesting I am, than since Crouse has a better cost per point, I would have said that Toronto needs to add in a trade based on Nylander and Crouse. Instead I said that based on all factors (contracts, previous trade comparables etc) and now including cost per point, which helps show Nylander's contract is no bargain and therefore does not hold extra value, Nylander for Crouse, McBain and a 2nd is more than fair and I was sticking by my value.

I had also already said that I am not saying the RW's that cost less per point were better than Nylander, but it is a fact that there are other right wingers that offer better value.

It was you had said you were disappointed in how I am using the metric and called my use of cost per point quite silly. Then you brought up Matthews, McDavid etc and said that then we might as well trade Marner and Matthews and get guys like Gagner and Barabonov because they have a better cost per point, which is so far off what I was saying I don't even know how you came up with that as being the conclusion from what I wrote.

Then you ask me If I have looked up Muzzin's cost per point. Why would I, I wasn't talking about Muzzin's value and Muzzin is a defensive d-man, his value is from other factors. Nylander is offence only, he brings nothing else. He doesn't Pk, he isn't physical, he isn't a leader, he isn't good defensively. You pay for offence from Willy. That is what you are paying for. So comparing his offensive production against others in the League per contract value to figure trade value would be a reasonable path to take. Not sure why you don't think so.

I defended my position in my responses to you about how it is relevant for Nylander's value, but for some reason you keep bringing up Matthews, McDavid and how ridiculous you think it is that I used this to support what I was saying about Nylander's value. You also kept bringing up how you still feel Muzzin needs to go first. I said you are muddying the waters to try and prove your own point that I am wrong for using it and you are right for calling it ridiculous and that Muzzin needs to be traded.

The irony is that you say you are fine with my trade of Nylander for Crouse, McBain and a 2nd, which I used the cost per point to back my value being fair. You saying I am offended that you are not agreeing with me is quite rich since your arguments have nothing to do with what I was saying about Willy's value/ trade value. You keep bringing up that you stand by your assessment that Muzzin needs to go. When did I bring up Muzzin that he needed to be in the discussion? Or Matthews or McDavid etc? It was also you who was throwing out the insults from first post. Seems like you are the one offended or angry.

Anyhow, I can't explain it any better than I have or in this post. Draw whatever conclusions you want from what I wrote.

Cheers Rsears.

29 Jul 2022 18:33:24
Okay you win.

29 Jul 2022 21:57:20
Nothing to win.

31 Jul 2022 10:57:14
Screw this cost per point crap. A bargain is if you buy the same item that normally costs x amount of out of pocket dollars but now it cost less than the original x amount of out of pocket dollars.

Nylanders cap value is 6.9 million yet his out of pocket cost is 6 million

That’s the bargain
Real money

As players contracts increase due to there production increasing that cost per point will decrease.
Let’s assume gaudreau and tkachuk produce at same as last season
Tkachuk at 7 cap hit was 67,000. At his 9 salary it jumps to 85,000
On his new deal at 9.5 cap hit it would be 90,000 but his salary is still 9 so back to 85,000
Johnny hockey cap and salary was 6.75 so he had a great 59,000.
On his new deal at 9.75 cap and salary it would be 85,000
Nylander at 6.9 was 86,000 and at his 6 million salary it drops to 75,000. So bargain

Now I’ll also point out that if a team gets a player after his bonus is paid then the salary to the team getting him is much less.
Nylander has a 2.5 bonus already paid so if a team grabs him for 3.5 salary his number now drops to 43,000. I mean it’s not the 16,000 bunting level but it’s still pretty darn good and a bargain for a team paying out of pocket salary owed from this point on in the season

Sorry showed up late for the dance and had to dance with the teacher who felt sorry for this nerdy guy standing all alone

By the way mcdavids number is over 100,000 cost per point but I’d still take a falls view steak over a run down diners steak any day even if it cost quite a bit more. The value in this case becomes my perfectly cooked steak and the experience I’m having while eating.

31 Jul 2022 14:04:25
@Jdb.

I would agree with your point if cost per point was based on the real money, but it is based on cap hit. it doesnt change when bonuses are paid etc. A team like the Leafs could care less about the real money. It obviously has no value only than comparing what a player takes up toward the cap. I would be shocked if there were no teams using it at all. With all the analytics out there, knowing what you are getting for $7M compared to other teams for that cap hit would seem an obvious thing to look at when all you are paying for is offence from that player.

I respect both yours and Rsears points of view. That said, when the discussion is about Nylander having a great contract and a bargain at $7M cap hit, not sure how it isn't re! event to look at what other players are producing and what they cost the team for that production. Using real money would mean Nylander was pretty bad his first couple years on his contract at $12M and $9M putting up 27 and 59 points would it not?

Just another tool to me when looking at value. by no means the biggest tool, but a tool nonetheless.

31 Jul 2022 15:15:08
On this site everyone relates all leafs contracts as bargains after bonuses are paid since leafs have money this is them flexing it.

Teams not caring about cap hit bug in money being owed view these money saving contracts as value where teams like the leafs only cate for cap hit value

Thus is we’re are meaning of the value contract differ

Both meanings are right and wrong depending on your interpretation of a value contract

Cheers.

31 Jul 2022 16:42:30
JDB. I agree with that 100%. It depends on the player/ team/ needs etc on what is more valuable. Nylander's contract has no value to Florida for instance because they need to shed cap. Arz sees value in the cap hit getting them to the floor and real money owed being much lower than cap hit. My value was based on him going to Arz. It would not have been the same if it was Fla where the Leafs would have to be willing to take a bad cap hit back.

Cheers back.

24 Jul 2022 02:09:46
So is this it until training camp?
Other than Sandin signing?
It will be a tough year.especially if the new goalies can't find their groove..

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24 Jul 2022 08:42:57
Not even find their groove. People thought Soup was injury prone, wait until they see Matt's record.

This can't be it, can it?

24 Jul 2022 14:55:07
It probably is it unfortunately. He probably built the best team he could last season with the keeping the core players. I don't see this version as good, but maybe I an wrong. There are more teams that have won the Cup making changes than those that have stuck with a core that wasn't getting it done. Dubas is missing that fact.

24 Jul 2022 19:08:05
I guess he considers kerfoot a core piece.
Sigh

3.5 million?

Maybe his pea brain tells him anyone over 3 million is a core piece and can’t be touched in trade talks.

24 Jul 2022 23:47:02
@MPH Kerfoot looks like a matter of pride to me. He gave up Kadri for him. I don't think he wants to admit that he made a bad decision.

25 Jul 2022 00:47:19
I said this before. If you are over $3M, Dubas wants to keep you. Other than Mrazek, has he traded a player making more than $3M unless he is dumping cap? I can't remember him making any deal where he moved any player of value making over that where he was making a hockey trade to improve the team.

25 Jul 2022 03:49:36
@RLF Kadri.

25 Jul 2022 11:25:14
@LL. Good catch. Can't believe I forgot that one.

25 Jul 2022 12:12:34
@LL. That was 3 years ago now, seems longer somehow. Has there been another one I have missed? If not, how does Dubas ever expect to actually improve the team?

25 Jul 2022 19:50:24
Maybe Kadri scared him lol. Now he knows he makes terrible trades so he just stands pat.

I'm not sure what his plan is. He's just bashing his head against a wall over and over again without realizing, he can change his approach.

23 Jul 2022 19:22:27
In a stunning development Leafs have been sold to an elderly lady, a widower of a billionaire.

His first name was Nick that is all the info we have at this time, along with news on a series of Leaf trades. New owner says she wants to honour her former husband.

Leafs announced that Nick Abruzzesse, Nicholas Aube-Kubel & Nicholas Robertson are untouchables as far as trades.

Matthews to Arizona for Nick Schmaltz & Nick Ritchie

Nylander to Boston for Nick Foligno LW & Nick Wolff

Marner to Calgary for Nikita Zadorov, Nicolas Meloche & Nick DeSimone.

Sandin for Nick Blankenburg

Kerfoot to Florida for Nick Cousins.

Reilly & Muzzin to Tampa for Nikita Kucherov & Nick Paul

Leafs are currently working on more trades.

Agree0 Disagree1

24 Jul 2022 16:32:20
1-time to paNICK

2- all in the nick of time

3- don't be a nick and drunk post.

23 Jul 2022 13:39:22
A lot of GMs have made moves to get better. Really good players have been traded. Yet Dubas seems to insist on sticking to his plan with the big 4 even though our goaltending and D are both likely worse than last playoffs team that went out in the 1st round again.
Well done. Well done.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Jul 2022 15:36:21
Are defended probably about the same as last year as for all the big names moving around it’s more to do with the cap I don’t think Florida will be as good next year with that tkachuk trade they moved their best player last year plus there best rhd option look at their blueline.

24 Jul 2022 01:18:58
I am not just referring to the recent Tkachuk trade. Many teams made moves or cleared cap so they could. Dubas has done. . . ?

24 Jul 2022 03:28:13
I'm not sure I even call Weegar their 3rd best. He was a great defenceman.

Don't forget, Ekblad (maybe) healthy.

I agree with you here RLF. I don't think you can enter this year with this team and think it goes better. Samsonov may turn out well, who knows. This defence sure isn't doing anyone any favours though.

Once again, who plays beside Rielly? Are we back to Rielly-Brodie? Then we go with Muzzin-Holl? That's not a great top 6 when Murray and Samsonov are your goalies. That's a Carey Price in his prime defence.

25 Jul 2022 22:22:16
I just got to ask what was so much better from last year compared to this year mikhyev had an ok year still has hands of stone I’m pretty positive that if he wasn’t as fast as he is he wouldn’t be in the league Campbell and mrazek had one of the leagues worst combined save % Spezza being gone hurts the room but he wasn’t that productive so again I fail to see where the downgrade is I think the leafs have a fourth line they can use yea we lost lybushkin but we also get gio for a full year kase was good for a part of the year but was mainly hurt yes the leafs are gambling in net but I don’t feel any worse than I did with Campbell in net.

26 Jul 2022 07:29:51
Hurting the room is a big deal. I didn't play hockey, but I play baseball. Motivated people do inspiring things. That's why we see players like Gelinas score in multiple series winning situations.

Mikheyev is better than his replacement. Nobody.

Save% during the regular season doesn't mean anything anymore though. We all know it's cup contention. Soup was not the issue the last 2 years, don't we?


Boosh beside Rielly. Who plays top 4 now? Brodie and Muzz are aging, they only do this for so long.

Kase I don't really care about.

Gio played well, but he isn't too 4 at this point.


When did Soup cause the collapse in the last 2 years? I'm not saying he's he's Roy, just that this is not a replacement.

26 Jul 2022 07:30:26
@L1994 that's my drunken rant for ya, at 3am because I'm awake with the kids lol.

26 Jul 2022 14:22:52
Not sure I am following your logic on this argument L1994. Spezza had 25 pts in 70 games as a 4th liner. How is that bad value? Campbell had a bad run mid season, but still finished with 2.64GAA and .915sv%. Much better than both Murray and Samsonov. Can't blame the team sv% on Campbell. That's Mrazek and Kallgren's sub .900's.

If Mikheyev wasn't fast he wouldn't be in the League? He has hands of stone is people clinging to the previous season. If you look at his goals per game for his NHL career, he is a 20 goal a season guy and that is including his previous bad season. Remove that season and he has 29 goals and 55 pts in 92 games. That's about 26 goals and 42 pts a season.

We lost Boosh, who allowed Brodie to play with Muzzin and Liljegren/ Sandin to play with Gio. Now what? Brodie with Rielly again. Meaning Muzzin has Lily/ Holl or Sandin playing his wrong side. Not sure how that isn't a big difference.

23 Jul 2022 05:21:20
Anyone else see the Tkatchuk news and start thinking "wonder what Marner is worth then"

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23 Jul 2022 13:35:27
First thing I thought was, so much for the theory by some that if Calgary loses Tkachuk they will have to rebuild. I'd take Huberdeau and Weegar any day.
Tkachuk is signed for less than Marner and by almost $1.5M with multiple UFA years. Another brilliant Dubas negotiation that every time another player signs, his signings look worse and worse.
I wouldn't expect more than that for Marner. Fla still well over the cap. They need to move Hornqvist.

23 Jul 2022 13:50:21
I'm intrigued to see if he has the same kind of year in a much tougher division.

23 Jul 2022 15:53:58
Marners deal was 6year deal hence why aav is higher then tkachuks.

23 Jul 2022 16:00:35
@Randy. Good point. Fla is a pretty high scoring team though. It will be interesting to see if Tkachuk goes out of his way to prove his deals worth and runs around a lot like an idiot trying to do too much.

23 Jul 2022 19:03:42
@L1994. I don't buy that theory. You pay more for UFA years than RFA years because you are buying the years they can sell themselves to the highest bidder. If Marner was 8 years and that would make his cap hit come down, then Marner would be discounting his prime earning years. I doubt he was going to do that. Dubas got played on his deals. Countless comparables show that.

23 Jul 2022 19:28:20
Marner also refused to sigh 7-8 years anywhere because Columbus wanted him for 7 years at 13 million and he told them he'd do it for 5 years.

24 Jul 2022 14:44:30
I have to agree with RLF with regards to Marner's contract. His agent, his father and he took Dubas to the cleaners.
If you look at the other big RFA's at the time, Point, Laine & Tkachuk who all took bridge deals. Everyone was saying that Marner's AAV would be in line once they resigned. And if you look now, none of the resignings are close to Marner's 10.903M even though most signed for 8 years.
Point $9.5M/ 8 years
Tkachuk $9.5M/ 8 years
Laine $8.7M/ 4 years
Let's see what Marner decides to do next negotiations. I will only give him a pass if he signs for $11M/ 8 years.

24 Jul 2022 17:29:33
@Tagz. Imo - Marner, Nylander of the big 4 he got took. Matthews if he continues to score 50+ will be a fair deal if he can get Matthewsto extend around $13-$13.5M per for 8. We know Tavares was offered more than what he signed for. Rielly was a good signing. I never liked the Kerfoot, Mrazek signings. I have said this before, Dubas is really good at anything under $2M. Over $2M, to quote Domingue, "Not the best".

24 Jul 2022 23:48:37
@Tagz is he even worth 11 million? He's never even put up 100 points. I don't see how he can even argue that he is.

24 Jul 2022 23:49:11
@RLF if the cap jumps 10 mil like it's expected to, Mathews will be in the 15 range imo.

25 Jul 2022 11:46:58
Even if it jumps that much as expected, I am not sure Matthews gets $15 (+) . Lots of GM's are signing pretty high profile guys with this same knowledge and no one is getting over $10M per at the moment. Is Matthews going to be worth $5M+ per over all these other guys who have just signed? Have to wait and see.

25 Jul 2022 14:15:43
@LL I agree he's not worth $11M, but I don't see him signing for less. I am hoping he signs for the same though.
@RLF I don't see Matthews signing for 8 years, probably 4 or 5 years.
$13.634M/ 4 years
Or
$14.634M/ 5 years.

25 Jul 2022 18:49:33
@Tagz. Dubas needs to get that $13.634 for at least 5 years. imo.

25 Jul 2022 19:51:10
@RLF I agree. Hope it can be done and even for cheaper or at least adding a 6th year.

25 Jul 2022 19:52:58
@Tagz he may do 8 years this time. He might want a bridge, but he can only bridge so many times.

25 Jul 2022 22:19:08
@LL I think he'll just sign 4/ 5 year contracts to keep in line with the rising cap.
I would love for him to sign for 8 years.

27 Jul 2022 00:33:35
Eventually he has to sign long term. You might be right though, he waits until he's 28-29 to sign for 7-8 years.

22 Jul 2022 05:59:54
Just wanted to say, we all feel for Ian Scott. I never made it to the same level he did, but I have severe back problems from baseball. It's a terrible situation and I wish the guy the best.

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22 Jul 2022 11:37:37
Seems like he has stuff planned. Good for him for accepting it and moving on. Not an easy thing I imagine.

23 Jul 2022 16:03:07
Back issues can be debilitating. I have back pain pretty much every day from a car accident years ago. Too young for the kids career to be over. Hope he finds something else he loves to do.

21 Jul 2022 22:17:45
not a trade but an ufa signing
Nicholas Hague UFA from LV Golden Knights
6ft 6 inch monster... Huge shot great skater for a 6'6" behemoth.. Sound defensive game.

NO IDEAS on why he went unsiged in LV his stats are unimpressive from offensive pov but defensivley sound

hes relatively cheap under 2M per I would guess based on what he made last year

what am i missing

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22 Jul 2022 11:39:33
He’s a rfa. Maybe they could flip him for Sandin😁.

22 Jul 2022 12:39:39
Personally, I'd rather Kolesar if we were targeting one of their RFA's. Kerfoot would have to be moved, but put Engvall up with JT and Willy and put Kolesar with Kampf and Jarnkrok. Or flip Kolesar and Engvall in the lineup.

 


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