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09 Dec 2023 13:39:54
Realistic unMackinized trades:
To Tor: Lauzon, Trenin
To Nsh: Lily, Jarnkrok, 3rd rd 2024
To Tor: Tanev
To Cgy: 1st rd 2024, Benoit, Abbruzzese
D group:
Rielly Brodie
McCabe Tanev
Lauzon Timmins
Lagesson/ Gio.
1.) 09 Dec 2023 15:33:21
Too much for Tanev.
2.) 09 Dec 2023 16:53:14
Definitely unMackinized. lol
First one seems reasonable. I wouldn't want to lose Jarnkrok though.
I think if the second one happens now, probably not enough for Tanev.
3.) 09 Dec 2023 18:22:34
I wouldn’t mind losing Jarnkrok if Trenin was coming back. Big, physical vet that is responsible. Bobby, I meant to add retention to that deal for Tanev. Either way, Abbruzzese is a lifetime AHLer. Not a deal breaker for me if they wanted him in the deal for retention.
4.) 10 Dec 2023 00:30:02
I would not want to see the Leafs sacrifice a 1st round pick for a 34 year old UFA with no guarantee that he will be back next year.
Do we even want another 34 year old defenseman back next year?
Big no to the Calgary trade.
Leafs have been giving up 1st round picks for short term, past their prime players for decades.
This process has not brought them any closer to reaching the Eastern Conference Finals let alone the Stanley Cup Finals.
Lauzon and Trenin are good targets but I’m not sure that offer gets them to Toronto?
08 Dec 2023 16:41:00
Alright a small blockbuster to send Willy packing:
To Tor: Larsson, Tolvenen (speedy winger that puts up points and better than Willy away from the puck
To Sea: Nylander.
1.) 08 Dec 2023 19:27:27
I like the targets.
How about a little bigger trade.
To Sea: Nylander, Lilygren, Robertson and Kampf.
To Tor: McCann, Larsson, Borgen and Tolvenen.
2.) 08 Dec 2023 21:37:59
Original deal is a great start but Seattle would owe the counter was too greedy
Nylander comes to play with not replace McCann to make Seattle bite on overpaying for nylander.
Start with asking for Wright . if no
1 of Rehkolf firkus dragicevic next tier with a 2nd
1 of Sale evens Nelson next tier with a 1st
I think Seattle will bite.
3.) 09 Dec 2023 02:51:01
Larsson is a good target but Tolvanen shoots left so it does nothing to fix the hole on the right side left by Nylander’s departure.
It does add to an abundance of LWs something Leafs do not need.
4.) 09 Dec 2023 14:31:39
Yes Tolvanen shoots left but he plays right wing and has for quite awhile.
5.) 09 Dec 2023 16:50:18
I don't mind this trade but I think Seattle should add. I personally, would want Dragicevic added in.
08 Dec 2023 15:48:00
To Tor : Allen
To MTL: Samsonov, 4th rd pick
To Cgy: Lily, Abbruzzese, 3rd rd pick
To Tor: Tanev
To Phi: Brodie (50% retained) Niemela, Jarnkrok, 3rd rd pick 2025
To Tor: Walker, Hathaway (as you can tell, I’m big on getting Hathaway as Reaves won’t play a single game in playoffs)
Knies. Mathews Gregor
Bertuzzi JT Marner
Robertson Domi Nylander
Steeves Kampf Hathaway
Rielly Walker
McCabe Tanev
Lagesson Timmins
Allen
Woll/ Hildeby/ Jones
Ready for playoffs.
1.) 08 Dec 2023 23:11:16
You wanna see the lazy, pouty version of Nylander? Put him on the third line.
2.) 09 Dec 2023 00:17:32
Would love to see the Barbie boy with a pouty face. Maybe he would realize you have to work hard consistently even away from the puck to stay in the top lines. Could have been done with Marner too.
3.) 09 Dec 2023 01:18:58
Rather trade Nylander than see him fall down and give up an OT goal again.
4.) 09 Dec 2023 02:55:16
Why would Montreal trade Allen for Samsonov.
Why would Toronto for that matter.
It does nothing to help either team.
Liljegren is 24 while Tanev is 34.
Why would Leafs do something so ridiculous as trade one right hand defenseman for another right hand defenseman who is 10 years older.
Gregor on the first line and Nylander on the third line.
And we thought we had problems with Sheldon Keefe’s lineups?!
06 Dec 2023 17:57:07
Let’s try a 3 team blockbuster trade:
To Tor: Hart (50% retained), Walker, Hathaway, Fabbro, Trenin
To Phi: Samsonov, Hildeby, Cowan, Brodie, Robertson, Lauzon, Tor 3rd pick 2024
To Nsh: Jarnkrok, Lily, Seeler, Abbruzzese, Phi 2nd rd 2024
*Reaves to minors
LTIR - Kling
IR - Gio
Knies Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi JT Marner
Robertson Domi Trenin
Gregor Kampf Hathaway
Rielly Walker
McCabe Fabbro
Lagesson Timmins
Hart
Woll.
1.) 06 Dec 2023 19:44:39
@Clarky17
Just to break down this trade from Leafs perspective:
Leafs giving up
Samsonov, Brodie, Lily, Jarnkrok, Robertson, Hildebrand, Abruzzese, 2023 3rd, Cowan (1st round pick)
For
Hart (50% retained), Walker, Hathaway, Trenin and Fabbro
Sorry, but I think this is a huge overpay from a Leafs perspective.
2.) 06 Dec 2023 20:49:37
This is how I broke it down and I may be off but let me know;
Hart -> Sammy (cap dump, Philly will dump him end of season), Hildeby, Cowan.
Walker - > Brodie, Abbruzzese. Walker is RD, younger with offensive upside and a way better cap hit.
Hathaway -> Jarnkrok, 3rd. Hathaway has proved he can play in the lineup and be an asset on the PK and can be our tough guy presence.
Fabbro
Trenin —> Lily, Robertson. We get the better d man and Trenin who is a reliable, physical bottom 6 forward.
3.) 06 Dec 2023 23:15:10
Brodie and Samsonov are gone at seasons end anyway. You can sign Brodie back at a discount next year. No problem with letting them go. Be nice to keep Cowan or Hildeby if possible. Not a bad deal though.
4.) 07 Dec 2023 12:23:49
@Clarky17 sorry for not replying last night, just got busy.
I'm looking at your breakdown and it does make sense, but I guess to me it depends on how we value the targets.
Cowan (best prospect IMO) and Hildeby (best goalie prospect IMO) should only be used for a stud prospect.
I like Hart and think he's a good goalie, but he is not a stud IMO. I probably could be swayed into using Cowan and Hildeby for Saros (but again that would be hard using both top prospects for one stud target) . Just my opinion though.
As for the rest of the breakdowns, they look good and are exactly the types of targets needed.
5.) 07 Dec 2023 12:39:04
I agree it would suck to lose two good future assets but would even better to get that package to help us win “now”. I think either Cowan or Minten are trade bait, we don’t have room for both, unless one transitions to winger.
6.) 07 Dec 2023 13:29:14
Possibly better for win'now', but not sure Hart is the answer.
As for Cowan and Minten, I think we need 2 Centers moving forward. JT is probably going to be used on the wing in future if resigned and hopefully Cowan slots into 2C and Minten 3C. That's the way I see these prospects moving forward.
7.) 07 Dec 2023 17:01:45
I think it is an overpay by the Leafs. Not massive, but enough to pass on the deal.
03 Dec 2023 15:02:01
Get all the pieces from one team:
To Tor: Ingram, Durzi, Crouse
To Arz: Samsonov, Hildeby, Lily, Minten, Jarnkrok, 3rd rd pick (might have to be a 1st? )
Klingberg/ Gio - LTIR
Reaves - minors
Knies Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi JT Marner
Robertson Domi Crouse
Gregor Kampf Steeves
Rielly Durzi
McCabe Brodie
Lagesson Timmins
Woll
Ingram
Btw Nylander looked so bad yesterday defensively and did nothing when he didn’t have the puck. Old Willy again, should have traded him while he was hot.
1.) 03 Dec 2023 15:27:49
Same old Willy indeed. So casual with the puck in overtime because he has this misconception that no one can take it from him. Instead he ends up on his ass and the puck in his net . Nice job Willy.
2.) 03 Dec 2023 17:30:50
Not excusing the Nylander giveaway, but Keefe has to take some blame as well. Nylander was on the ice for 2:40 in OT, are you kidding me? He was gased, and we all know more mistakes happen when you're tired.
Lather, rinse, repeat. The Keefe story.
Tired of the same old, same old. Its time for a new bench boss.
3.) 03 Dec 2023 19:02:14
He was on the ice because he chose not to come off . He was then far too casual with the puck and paid for it.
4.) 03 Dec 2023 20:01:34
As I said, I'm not excusing his blunder. He and Tavares were put on the ice with 47 seconds left, not sure at what point he should have come off the ice.
All I'm saying is that Keefe needs to go because all he does is runs down his stars with tons of ice time. It's all he relys on every single time.
What's wrong with playing Jarnkrok and Domi for a shift to take some ice time? Jarnkrok is very responsible defensively and Domi has tons of speed for 3 on 3. Just for Keefe to try something different for once is all I'm saying.
5.) 04 Dec 2023 04:02:41
@Tags he used to love Kampf in OT for some reason lol.
6.) 04 Dec 2023 12:24:27
I thin it would be really tough to get Crouse and Ingram out of Arizona.
As for using Kampf in O. T. Why not just use JT then if trying to get the puck off the faceoff?
7.) 04 Dec 2023 12:38:15
@LL lol, but he still does start Kampf from time to time lol. Even though Kampf hasn't been great on the draws.
Maybe he should have started Tavares, who was on fire on the dot that game, and as he has been pretty much the whole season.
Clarky17's banter posts with other poster's replies to Clarky17's banter posts
09 Dec 2023 11:12:49
Love to have an open discussion on the Brodie/ Lily talks. There are a lot of people that don’t want to see them go and I believe it’s because of the stupid analytics stats. I’m all for moving Brodie myself as he has slowed down, barely 6’0 190lbs, shoots left while having to play on the right side and make 5M AAV. I get he has a great stick defensively and high defensive IQ but when you’re slowing down with age, having to play in your off side all the time, under sized to win net/ corner battles, not physical and doesn’t stick up for his goalie. I’m sorry but this 5M can be used to get quality big, physical right handed D. Larsson and Murphy both make around 4M. I believe either one of these guys (being able to play on their own side) would be a big upgrade from Brodie playing RD#1 with Rielly. I would love to hear peoples thoughts on this because I feel Leaf fans are divided and I honestly think it’s because people listen to that analytics crap. All just IMO.
1.) 09 Dec 2023 17:14:10
Just my opinion. Moving Brodie makes no sense unless you can find an upgrade. The problem with the upgrade is cost to acquire. It's not like a team will send their top pair RD for Brodie straight up. Or a 2nd pair RD for Liljegren. I think some are about analytics, others like myself are saying it's not like we have a lot of assets to add to a trade, so who are people willing to move to get upgrades?
For me, of those that hold any real value still, it's Liljegren, Niemela, Robertson and our 1st I would be fine with the leafs moving for an upgrade. Depending on the package given, would also deoend on whether I would expect it to be a player with term or pending UFA coming back. I would rather keep Knies, Minten and Cowan.
Is Brodie, Liljegren, Robertson, Niemela and a 1st capable of return a top pair Rd and 2nd pair Rd? I doubt it, not any with term anyway and I am not for selling the farm this year to take a run at a Cup this season.
This is why I think we should trade Willy for a youngish top 4 RD or prospect with potential top 4 RD++. You probably get cap space and keep your assets to then make a trade for a forward to replace Willy. For example, I know many didn't like my Nylander and Liljegren for Lyubushkin, Lunaeu and Perrault deal, but it follows with my own philosophy on what the Leafs should be doing. Lyubushkin adds a different element than Liljegren and also had chemistry with Rielly. Luneau I think is way underrated and would give the Leafs a puck moving, offensive D that reads plays well and plays solid defence already. Even if he doesn't play this season on the Leafs, I would rather have Boosh over Liljegren. Perreault adds a future RW that can score and skate. Like his dad, very good shot. He's got a bit of an edge to him as well.
No analytics for me, simply how I view what the team should be thinking moving forward.
2.) 09 Dec 2023 18:05:23
I really don't understand trading Brodie. If anything, you keep brodie and add someone else in the top 4.
3.) 09 Dec 2023 18:33:37
I think Brodie has digressed the past few years and didn’t look good in playoffs. Being older, smaller and on his off side plus he looked a bit timid in playoffs.
Just throwing this out there but for whatever reason, we could buy him out this year and it would cost us $0. Free up 5M to go after a Larsson along with Tanev. I think that drastically improves our right side.
4.) 09 Dec 2023 19:24:59
I don't understand why buy him out. Someone would still pay a 2nd minimum for a top 4 RHD (plays right anyway)
5.) 09 Dec 2023 19:54:43
I still think Brodie is our second best D-man and our best defensive D-man. Doesn't really make much sense to me to move him.
With that said, I don't think Brodie is easy to trade anyways. Even though his cap hit is $5M, he's owed $7.5M is real dollars. Either Leafs would have to retain or possibly add a sweetener in any deal IMO. Best for us to keep Brodie and find a top pairing RHD, such as Tanev and then slide Brodie down to 2nd pairing LD.
@Clarky17
Question:
Can you buy out a player mid season? I didn't think that was allowed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
6.) 09 Dec 2023 20:42:34
Clarky. You lost me on buying out Brodie. You can't buy out a player during the season and I don't know of a buyout that costs $0.
At the end of this season he is a pending UFA, so there is nothing to buyout. What do you mean buy him out this year and it costs $0 and now go after Larsson and Tanev with that $5M in cap space?
7.) 10 Dec 2023 13:30:51
My apologies. It would have had to been done during the buyout period in the offseason. I must have been reading an old article but it was a debate in the off-season because his buyout would have cost $0 against the cap this year. Again my apologies but I am still all for using him in a trade to help us get a couple RHD targets.
8.) 10 Dec 2023 13:46:38
@Clarky. All good.
But his total cap hit isn't $0. It would be have been $2.5M for 2024-25 iirc. Yes, they would have opened up $5M for this season, but who was available in the summer to replace him? That was the big question. If the Leafs bought him out, the Leafs would have got nothing for their asset for this season and then next season he would have cost $2.5M against the cap and not even playing. I get what you are saying, but Tanev, Hanafin and Larsson probably weren't available in the summer. It was poor starts by Calgary and Seattle that may make them available. I am assuming you would agree with that.
9.) 10 Dec 2023 18:36:41
RLF there were some big names that would have been great on the Leafs moved around. Provorov, Severson, Soucy to mention a few. Either way I know the Brodie convo is a hot topic and it’s and I personally feel that Rielly, McCabe, Lagesson can hold down the left side if they are able to get two RHD.
10.) 10 Dec 2023 22:56:40
@RLF wasn't a Brodie buyout 0$ this year and 5m next?
11.) 11 Dec 2023 00:18:42
@Ll. You could be right. Point being is that you buy him out and replace him with someone more expensive, but then you still have to add to the D on top of that and pay for it next season. Hard to give everyone term under those conditions.
08 Dec 2023 01:33:53
If Woll is done for a while, we are in trouble. ?♂️.
1.) 08 Dec 2023 01:48:39
How crazy would it be to see Jones and Hildeby playing together. Wouldn’t mind seeing what Hilde could do in the big leagues.
05 Dec 2023 19:44:05
Does anyone else feel that Wayne Simmons could have been that 4th line player we have been looking for if he was used properly? Can’t believe he went from a goal scorer on Philly to not being able to play on the Leafs 4th line. I don’t ever really seen him lose a fight. Gregor Kampf Simmons.
1.) 05 Dec 2023 19:55:49
Not really.
Injuries caught up with him badly.
2.) 05 Dec 2023 22:00:47
Well I’m not sure of his current status but he could chip in offensively and never see the guy back down from anyone. Definitely an improvement over Reaves.
3.) 05 Dec 2023 22:43:50
Is he an improvement though? Reaves was nailed to the bench as if 20 minutes into the last game and only had 5 short shifts in the first 30 minutes. Even Mcjesus isn't contributing with that usage.
4.) 05 Dec 2023 23:37:58
Oh no. not the Wayne train. honestly the days of having enforcers/ fighters are done. need multi tool players that can fight when needed but chip in an not be slow skaters.
5.) 06 Dec 2023 12:37:51
I was actually thinking about this last night why didn’t the leafs just use Clifford in reaves role he’s signed and only make league min to further that point why didn’t they sign a guy like Logan Shaw to and nhl deal he’s been a point per game player with the marlies 6’4 200+ lbs instead of paying 1.3 for 3 years the more you look at the decision treliving has made the worse it looks on the leafs I mean laferty has 7 goals now.
6.) 06 Dec 2023 13:56:47
@Goat. I used to think the same thing about Clifford in the past. He is an NHL talent for a 4th liner. He just takes too many bad penalties. It's like he can't help himself. They aren't evening the roughing type typically. They are trips and slashed etc in the offensive zone on forechecks type of penalties. I really think that us why he isn't in the NHL.
Shaw isn't much of a scraper. He will, but not very good at it.
7.) 07 Dec 2023 10:09:23
Fair but if you played Clifford the way they play reaves how much trouble could he get into hahaha as for Shaw I agree he’s not a fighter but at this point the leafs need an upgrade from a fighter they need a guy they can actually play.
8.) 07 Dec 2023 16:57:34
Goat. They tried giving him Reaves minutes a couple seasons ago and he kept taking stupid penalties. So sadly, he can get into trouble with only 7-8 mins a night. lol.
30 Nov 2023 14:54:46
Sorry last post. But is it not time to move up Gregor? He is doing a lot more than Jarnkrok with a lot less ice time (at least 5 on 5). I know it won’t happen but would love to see a major line mix up.
Bertuzzi Tavares Nylander - was working well
Knies. Matthews Gregor - speed and tough on pucks, less fancy rubbish and more pucks in deep.
Robertson Domi Marner - I think there would be real chemistry on this line making 3 tough offensive lines
Steeves Kampf Jarnkrok - I think once Steeves gets his chance, they won’t want to send him back down. They can play Teaves sparingly when opposition has tough guys.
1.) 30 Nov 2023 16:08:09
I'm with you on Gregor. Liked what he's doing since game one.
2.) 30 Nov 2023 17:11:23
I have no problem giving Gregor more ice time, but reducing Jarnkrok to me makes no sense. Robertson has 1 point in his last 5 games while being a -3 over that time at even. Jarnkrok has 2 points in the last 3 games and a +2 at even. Sit Robertson and hopefully it puts a spark under him and play McMann.
Put Marner with Domi and Jarnkrok.
3.) 30 Nov 2023 18:08:42
I think Robertson could be a big piece to our secondary scoring. Seems like the more we have trouble scoring the less everyone but the rope two lines play. I think when that line is steady in rotation, they have been good. I think adding Marner with Domi and Robertson could help boost all 3 lines. IMO.
4.) 30 Nov 2023 18:16:47
@RLF isn't this what Robwrtson always does? Comes in and scores like a superstar for 3 games, then falls off a cliff.
I'm with you there.
Gregor has 3g and 4 points on the fourth line so far. If he's producing at a 20 or so pts pace and 12 goals, he needs to be given more ice time.
5.) 30 Nov 2023 19:39:08
@Clarky I'm not sure Marner with Domi and Robertson works. They'll get bullied off the puck constantly and have only one shooter. Domi and Mitchy have two od the ugliest shots I've ever seen.
6.) 30 Nov 2023 19:50:45
Clarky. IMO-Robertson should be in the minors playing tons of minutes on the top lines and hopefully being a dominate AHL player. If he can, what a great call-up come playoff time. He always comes out hard and tails off. He even did that in the minors this year. He needs to learn to be more consistent.
I say Jarnkrok should be there because Jarnkrok has a very underrated shot and is much better defensively than Robertson. Domi with Jarnkrok and Marner could be a line that scores, but also play a solid defensive game.
LL. Yep. I posted it when they called him up. I tried to tell weathermackin that when he was going on about Robertson, but he insisted again that Robertson will score 30 and work his way into the top 6. He had 4 points in his first 4 games and a +2. He has 1 point in his last 5 games and a -3. He is inconsistent. Always has been as a pro.
7.) 30 Nov 2023 20:48:04
I agree with the inconsistencies but the last few games, Keefe has been relying on his top two lines heavily, plus special teams on top. Doesn’t seem like they are playing much especially if the game is tight. The last couple games we have played teams that rolls 4 lines because their coach trusts them. These guys barely see the 3rd period if the game is close. Keefe runs those top two lines into the ground to where they have nothing left by end of the game or OT.
8.) 30 Nov 2023 21:03:05
Lather, rinse, repeat
Nothing changes with Keefe in charge, time for change.
9.) 30 Nov 2023 21:45:09
@Clark not sure I blame Keefe most nights. Robertson is very hit or miss and Domi+Robertson is a train wreck defensively.
30 Nov 2023 14:07:40
Prediction tonight:
Knies 2 goals one assist. Leafs win 5-2 or 5-1 depends if it was double tapped. Any other predictions? Winner gets 5 Leaf bucks.
09 Dec 2023 18:22:34
I wouldn’t mind losing Jarnkrok if Trenin was coming back. Big, physical vet that is responsible. Bobby, I meant to add retention to that deal for Tanev. Either way, Abbruzzese is a lifetime AHLer. Not a deal breaker for me if they wanted him in the deal for retention.
09 Dec 2023 11:16:09
Not sure what everyone is seeing but Lily is not our 2nd best anything. IMO he is no different than a Rifai or Benoit, should be a lifetime AHL call up on a good team. He could probably make Montreal though. Lol.
09 Dec 2023 00:17:32
Would love to see the Barbie boy with a pouty face. Maybe he would realize you have to work hard consistently even away from the puck to stay in the top lines. Could have been done with Marner too.
07 Dec 2023 12:48:04
Come in Mackin. You don’t think about defence. You’re gonna have an all rookie line? That should go well. Holmberg is as good as Kampf? Really. So Holmberg will be taking most of the defensive zone faceoffs now, starting on PK every time with Marner (one of our best PKers) also starting all 3 on 3 overtime’s until we get the puck back. You can’t replace NHL experience and Holmberg needs to gain that before he can be considered as much of an asset as Kampf.
07 Dec 2023 12:39:04
I agree it would suck to lose two good future assets but would even better to get that package to help us win “now”. I think either Cowan or Minten are trade bait, we don’t have room for both, unless one transitions to winger.
10 Dec 2023 18:36:41
RLF there were some big names that would have been great on the Leafs moved around. Provorov, Severson, Soucy to mention a few. Either way I know the Brodie convo is a hot topic and it’s and I personally feel that Rielly, McCabe, Lagesson can hold down the left side if they are able to get two RHD.
10 Dec 2023 13:30:51
My apologies. It would have had to been done during the buyout period in the offseason. I must have been reading an old article but it was a debate in the off-season because his buyout would have cost $0 against the cap this year. Again my apologies but I am still all for using him in a trade to help us get a couple RHD targets.
09 Dec 2023 18:33:37
I think Brodie has digressed the past few years and didn’t look good in playoffs. Being older, smaller and on his off side plus he looked a bit timid in playoffs.
Just throwing this out there but for whatever reason, we could buy him out this year and it would cost us $0. Free up 5M to go after a Larsson along with Tanev. I think that drastically improves our right side.
08 Dec 2023 12:26:21
Why not try Hildebeast and Jones together. Sammy is not part of our future anyway, whether he leaves this year or next. There is some goalies around LL but will be hard to get them. Might take a bit. I have Hart, Allen, Gibson, Binnington, Mrazek, Blackwood, swayman/ Ullmark (I think Boston will move one for a C), Markstrom. I’d like to see Sammy get traded for Allen straight up. Allen is better but like 10 years older. We just need him for a year or two until Will is ready to be the full time starter.
08 Dec 2023 01:48:39
How crazy would it be to see Jones and Hildeby playing together. Wouldn’t mind seeing what Hilde could do in the big leagues.