Leafs rumours 2

18 Sep 2019 03:27:41
Tor gets
Klingberg D

Dallas gets
Johnsson LW
Engvall LW
Liljegren D
Toronto's 2nd round pick 2020
Toronto's 3rd round pick 2021

Tor gets
Puljujarvi RW signs 1 year @ 925k

Edmonton gets
Bracco RW
Petan C/RW
Lindgren D

Toronto's Forward lines
Hymn/Tavares/Marner
Kapanen/Mathews/Nylander
Moore/Kerfoot/Puljujarvi
Mikheyev/Spezza/Aberg

Toronto's defensive lines
Riley/Klingberg
Muzzin/Barrie
Dermot/Ceci

18 Sep 2019 08:38:20
I really believe Klingberg is worth more.

18 Sep 2019 10:11:16
I don't see dallas wanting to deal klingberg at he moment as he is just comng into his own and is on a good contract. Even if they did decide the leafs would have to throw more cap dallas way as leafs would be close to a million over.

Remember any deal here on out leafs need to send equal to or more cap value to the team they are dealing with.

Second deal its really a deal based on personal opinion. Do you like puljujarvi more than bracco. New NHL i'd take bracco. however, i wouldn't put up an argument for puljujarvi either as it is a toss up. Again personal opinion. So this second deal is pretty close.

18 Sep 2019 12:50:28
I think Dallas has a bad season they will retool I wouldn’t say total rebuild. So I’m calling it now Dallas is struggling come trade deadline it’s a fire sale on their forwards
@leafslife I believe you are right Klingberg May be worth more that said this isn’t that bad of an offer.
@craggier are you sure that we would short
3.4 + .925 = 4.325
Klingberg = 4.25.

18 Sep 2019 14:08:19
engvall and liljegren aren't making anything against the cap unless they make the leafs. then if they get dealt their place on the roster has to get replaced so basically the cap hit for this deal is johnsson cap hit for klingbergs cap hit.

18 Sep 2019 14:57:27
Puljujarvi is finished in the nhl for at least the remainder of this year. Nobody is willing to pay Holland’s ridiculous asking price, If he does well in Finland (I believe that’s where he went), gets his courage back up, and comes back to nhl the following year.

18 Sep 2019 16:12:45
Dermott + Kapanen+ a draft pick for Klingberg. $190K difference

Bracco replaces Kapanen.

18 Sep 2019 17:12:01
@hound dog if you consider winning a playoff series against Nashville, then taking the eventual cup winners to 7 games a BAD season, then i'm not sure what to tell you. I would say that Dallas had an awesome season tbh, not exactly the time to tear down and rebuild.

18 Sep 2019 17:18:02
Heatdreamer. this deal is more like it. Dallas may actually consider something like this if they are wanting a speedy forward. you never know what teams actually want but as far as the deal is concerned its pretty close in value.

good proposal.

18 Sep 2019 19:25:50
@LeafsHoundDog it isn't a horrible return but realistically it's Johnson a second and a third for Klingberg. The other two are just throw Ins. Dallas has a good team right now with a great Defense and I doubt they want picks or prospects. More likely they are looking for a roster player added in with Johnson and then maybe a second or third. Issue when dealing with Dallas will be cap space though.

17 Sep 2019 07:36:40
2020 Offseason trade

Leafs trade Jeremy Bracco, 2nd round pick 2020, 3rd round pick 2021

Anaheim trades Josh Manson (50% retained), Ryan Kesler (assuming he never plays again)

Anaheim gets rid of the financial burden of Kesler by moving Manson at 50%. They bring in a solid prospect and two decent picks.

The Leafs get two years of Manson at 2.05M, exactly the sort of cheap top4 RD that they will need. They pay Kesler to stay home, just like they're doing with Clarkson and Horton now.

They also resign Muzzin at 5.5M, which I think is very reasonable. Barrie will be way too pricey.

Reilly-Manson
Muzzin-Dermott
With the third pair up for grabs, and the young swedes another year older and maybe ready to snag an NHL role.

17 Sep 2019 08:01:38
The savings aren’t huge, but might be enough to retain Anderson in a couple years. Right now I feel he should be traded too. Great regular series goaltender, but chokes in important moments of important games. Not since Belfour have we we had a real true Vezina goalie.

17 Sep 2019 11:28:36
Good choice but It won't be easy to pry him from the Ducks, they are weak on RD. Leafs will have money next year as the fwd. group is set and will be similar to this year. With all the UFA's gone and assuming the cap goes up $3m the leafs will have arpund $17m for 5 D, Reilly is good for another couple of years. Give Dermott $3m based on how he makes out this year and have 2 players graduate from the Marlies and we have around $12m left - should be pleanty to add 2 quality D like Manson and Pietrangelo.

17 Sep 2019 13:01:30
Blues will be making petro a blue for life.

17 Sep 2019 14:23:03
Redwing: not done yet is it.

17 Sep 2019 16:00:59
It will be soon. when the season starts they can offer him a contract. Wouldn't be surprised if he is signed shortly after start.

17 Sep 2019 17:35:50
dont want to extend muzzin lots of mileage, isn't the best skater, rather keep barrie, better for the new NHL game, you can get fuys lize muzzinin FA on the cheap ie methot bieksa ect. he will decline like them in a couple years. keel the good skating puck moving d, and try to develop ypur own buf body version of paraynko or jones of dumba, hard pass on muzz long term.

17 Sep 2019 18:02:06
Redwing they've been able to offer him a contract since July 1st, you sure talk a lot of sh! t for someone who doesn't seem to understand how the league works.

17 Sep 2019 18:02:59
Pietrangelo is going to be asking for 9++ and 6-8 years. Not quite Karlsson or Doughty money but just a shade under so with that number St. Louis can keep him.

17 Sep 2019 18:17:40
@Forsberg21
Barrie will also be asking 9M+, and the Leafs have a couple prospects who may end up being dynamite puck-movers - Liljegren and Sandin certainly have that potential. They have mo one in the organization that brings what Muzzin does, and I feel like he'd sign for 4-5 years at 5.5M. That's why i'd prefer to keep him - different skillset, probably cheaper option.

And Muzzin is loads better and years younger than Bieksa and Methot. He'll be their age when my propsed contract runs out.

17 Sep 2019 17:54:18
@16 I agree that Manson could be hard to pry away from Anaheim in light of them moving Montour this summer, they've gone from having a crazy deep defense core to being pretty thin over the last two years.

I just love the idea of the Leafs taking on other teams' broken toys in exchange for taking quality defensemen at a discount.

My other target was Arizona because of the Hossa contract, and bringing in Hjalmarsson. But I'd rather have Manson.

17 Sep 2019 23:18:32
Oh raaannnndddyyyy "Peter Griffin voice".

I'm sorry I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything. So who cares he just had triplets with a st. Louis chick. Good luck getting him to Toronto when you dam well know you will not have 9mil.

18 Sep 2019 02:31:05
There’s a HUGE difference between Manson and a 1st, and I know, for fact, that you know that as well MarsBars. You’ve been on this site for a long time, and are easily one of the most astute observers of the game. You, Craigger. And few others I tend to read your comments closely, and for good reason. You know what you are talking about, and in those cases where we do disagreement, i prefer your comments versus some old man on a web site that thinks Hamilton is worth 4x1st, plus Frolik, plus Brodie/ Hamoni.

AnywYay, you get my point by now I’m sure.

Columbus sucks. Leafs rule.

18 Sep 2019 02:56:34
@hotwing69 Pieteranglo will be blue and white next year! Riley for captain!

18 Sep 2019 04:30:50
Love to have Manson. I don’t see ANA going for this as the offer stands though I like the idea of gaining leverage with taking another teams LITR player.

18 Sep 2019 08:41:44
What's with all the hate for Muzzin at times? He hitting an age now where maybe a 7 year deal isn't smart but Muzzin is a great player. He doesn't show up on the stat sheet like people want these days from Defenseman but he puts in work out there. I don't know as much about Barrie as I do about Muzzin but at this point I would take a cheaper Muzzin over Barrie anytime.

18 Sep 2019 12:01:21
Muzzin isn't loved as much as others because he isn't flashy. You won't see him make fancy plays out there but you also won't see him making to many mistakes. He is steady eddie when it comes to playing D. I see Dubas trying to sign him before Barrie because Muzzin was afterall the first captain Dubas ever had.

18 Sep 2019 12:48:27
Blues will be signing petro.

18 Sep 2019 16:15:24
Kapanen + Dermott for Savard.

18 Sep 2019 17:19:57
Heatdreamer. you're on fire today. another nice deal that if colombus is looking for a speedy forward theyd probably consider this. since noone truely knows what they are looking for you have to base this strickly on the value of the deal and its pretty close in my opinion.

again good proposal.

18 Sep 2019 19:29:52
@Heatdreamer that's a good prop. I like it.

@Craigger yeah I agree and most people I know don't recognize how valuable Muzzin is. He moves the puck fairly well, plays great D, kills penalties and hits. I just really don't get the hard on for Barrie. Granted I'm fairly limited in my knowledge of him but I spoke to a few Avalanche fans that said he is Jake Gardiner 2.0 and they were overjoyed he was gone. We all forget he also played top PP minutes with one of the most dangerous lines in hockey which Reilly will be doing here not Barrie. I expect his production to drop significantly this year.

Really hope I'm wrong I just don't have high hopes for him.

19 Sep 2019 00:49:44
Barrie will do just fine. If Gardiner can get 50 points playing second line, I’m sure Barrie will be able too as well. It doesn’t matter if he’s playing first pp with Matthews Line, or second op with Tavares line. Either way, he shouldn’t have any problems putting up points. Leafs are far deeper than Colorado and their one line team. We have the manpower to give Barrie plenty of opportunity. And with Muzzin as his partner, I think Barrie might even have more freedom to play offense than he did in Colorado.

17 Sep 2019 00:01:03
Leafs trade Marner, Ceci
Lightning trade Hedman, Foote

Obviously overlooking the whole TB/ TO thing (can’t trade to divisional rival) . Why Tampa does this: they get Marner. Either he plays with Point or Stamkos. Those guys instantly are 50+ goals easily.

Toronto gets Hedman. A Norris winner, and equal to Rielly, he instantly puts us in top 5 defense as well. Foote gives us another A-prospect to go along with Liljegren. Tampa adds the prospect (Foote) because they are getting the younger, more valuable forward (Marner), who just so happens to be the best player in this trade.

Johnsson/ Matthews/ Nylander
Hyman/ Tavares/ Kapanen
Mikheyev/ Kerfoot/ Bracco
Moore/ Spezza / Aberg
*Gauthier, Petan
(Timashov/ Brooks/ Marchment)
(Engvall/ SDR/ Robertson)

Reilly/ Hedman
Muzzin/ Barrie
Dermott/ Foote
*Holl, Marincin, Gravel, Harpur
(Sandin/ Liljegren)
(Kokkanen/ Hollowell)
(/ Duszak)
(/ Rasanen)

Andersen
Hutchinson
(Woll)
(Scott)

17 Sep 2019 02:53:58
You can't be serious. Marner at 10.8 doesn't get you Victor hedman. Besides muzzin is your n orris canidate.

17 Sep 2019 05:55:05
Eventually I figure the leafs might be open to trading Marner or Nylander for a top dman. Tampa Bay wouldn’t b able to fit Marner in there salary cap let alone Ceci. Salary cap aside I don’t see TB accepting this trade even if it was Marner for Hedman.

17 Sep 2019 07:38:22
We have threee Norris candidates now. Hedman, Muzzin, Rielly.

17 Sep 2019 07:45:15
@RedWing

There is a team in the Bahl right now that some say has the best defense ever assembled. San Jose Sharks have Burns, Karlsson, Vlasic. All three Norris candidates each. It’s an unfortunate reality that Norris winners have to be basically league leaders in points as well. Orr set the trend, and Coffey confirmed it. To be a Norris candidate these days, you have to be the best of both worlds: Odense and defense. That’s why Muzzin finished The11th three years in a row; while Pietrangelo wasn’t even considered. Muzzin is one of the best 2-way defensemen in the game.

17 Sep 2019 15:03:11
I think Carolina could challenge for best D-core in the league.

Slavin
Hamilton
Pesce
Gardiner
Faulk

That's some serious puck movement from the blueline on all three pairs.

17 Sep 2019 20:48:03
The Leafs will not be trading Marner. Just wait a year or two and see what the other players start to sign for. Every player once they sign a LTD the contract AAV looks high.

Just last year Tavares signed at $11M, 2nd highest AAV. Already within a year we have seen Doughty, Karlsson, Matthews and Panarin sign for the same or more.

17 Sep 2019 23:20:45
Petro and parayko are better dmen then muzzin
End of story.

Tampa is not trading hedman just like stamps didn't sign in tor.

18 Sep 2019 08:42:47
Lol he had to throw Parayko in there.

18 Sep 2019 10:19:40
If tampa were to trade hedman to the leafs i personally think the starting ask would be Matthews or Taveras and not marner. I think tampa would want a C so stamkos can play wing more often as he ages and starts playing the way ovechkin plays. Less responsible more scoring.

Its interesting hedman for taveras.1st overall for 2nd overall 10 years later.

18 Sep 2019 12:43:56
Werenski signed 3x$5M, and McAvoy signed for about the same. The truth is, players in low 20’s coming off elc’s, the forwards are actually worth more. An elite 22 year old winger is worth more than an elite 22 year old defenseman. Because forwards peak earlier than defenseman. That’s why Marner and Matthews get $11M their second contract, while McAvoy and Weren ski got half that.

It’s a fact RedWing. You can look it up. And salaries reflect that truth.

16 Sep 2019 23:40:36
SO according to cap friendly the leafs have no money at all anymore. That is a very big issue. But I do believe Kyle will find a way out of this. Here are a few of my suggestions.
1. Trade Ceci for some draft picks maybe a third.
2. Hyman and picks/prospects to anibeime for Ritchie.
3. Muzzin and a pick and someone like Timashov to Carolina for Pesce.
4. Trade Nylander with a third for Teravainen.

All of a sudden we have 7 mill to sign barrie next year maybe a two year bridge deal with a Avv of about 6. Then the cap will go up let's say about 3 mill and sign Dermott to a 1 year 2.5 million dollar deal and by the following year the cap should go way up.
Lineups going forward in the he did follwing years

Johnson Matthews Teravainen
Ritchie Tavares Marner
Moore Kerfoot Kapanen
Mikheyev Spezza Petan

Riley Pesce
Dermott Barrie
Sandin/Lillegreen

17 Sep 2019 01:48:27
My belief is dubas likes ceci and wants to give him a chance or he would of just walked away from him instead of signing him for 4.5 million an almost impossible cap hit to trade until teams get a look at him on a good team.

Hyman is hurt and isn't going to be ready for a while. Ritchie isn't much better if at all and if this ends up being the only deal than ritchies cap hit of 1.6 or around their puts leafs over cap by 700K or so once season starts as hyman is on ltir so only his replacement minimum salary player is counting against the cap. This trade has to at least wait until November.

If Muzzin and a low tier prospect gets the leafs Pesce than i'd say great but their cap hits are pretty close. Carolina may do this as they are great on right side and really only have gardiner on left side so now they have solud top 4.

Nylander deal why wouldn't you just throw that into the Pesce deal? Either way it seems alright on paper. Teravainen is a snidge older but on a better contract money wise. Same type of players just shooting differant hands. If carolina says yes then why not? 1.4ish million in savings.

Cant bridge Barrie. UFAs don't get bridged but it was a good idea if not for that readon. You can bridge dermott though.

Not bad ideas overall. keep the proposals coming.

17 Sep 2019 03:19:47
A few issues I see.

I doubt anyone pays a third for Ceci. Even good defenceman are not getting much money so Ceci at 4.5 seems like noone will want him.

Hyman a possibility but that really doesn't save much and it weakens the left side which is already weak.

If Carolina trades Pesce they don't want Muzzin back as a rental nor will Timashov do it. Carolina is already capped out as well so they would want salary going the other way as well.

No one in there right mind would give Teravainen for Nylander and a third. Carolina doesn't have much cap space and Teravainen is cheap, Nylander was abysmal last year Teravainen wasn't what's the hope for Carolina they get a third and an at beat equal more expensive player? It just makes no sense at all from their point of view.

17 Sep 2019 06:01:13
1) maybe the someone would take Ceci for your offer
2) Leafs will probably lose Hyman or if they got Richie in the expansion draft
3) Muzzin is a UFA after this year while Pesce is signed to a sweet contract with a few years to go
4) why would CAR trade Teravainen to the Leafs for Nylander.

Also keep in mind that CAR is currently over the salary cap, these trades would even put them further over.

17 Sep 2019 07:54:43
Craigger. Carolina has Slavin and Gardiner. Next to San Jose, Carolina has the best, deepest defense in the league. And it is very leas expensive that league leading SJ as well.

17 Sep 2019 09:42:41
Yeah, just remembered slavin. totally forgot about him last night. me bad. carolina doesn't need muzzin or any dman right now. lol.

17 Sep 2019 11:33:49
The team is built and yes we have no money, just the way it should be. Toronto will always be at the Cap limit and that is the plan, why does one of the richest organizations in sports want to have cap room. All these trades mentioned here will weaken the team, just forget about money and let this team play, I can't wait to see hockey and forget about all this bull.

17 Sep 2019 13:04:28
I agree with 16

its going to be a good battle for LW until hyman gets back
its going to be a great battle for bottom 2 forwards
its going to be a fun battle for bottom 2 pairing until dermot gets back

this team is set until they feel it isn't set.

16 Sep 2019 23:12:33
Kapanen,Bracco, Ceci, Sandin and a 2nd rd.pick in 2020 for Laine.

Tavares Laine Hyman
Matthews Marner Nylander
Kerfoot Mikheyev Johnsson
Spezza Aberg Moore

17 Sep 2019 03:21:53
Probably your worst prop ever and that's saying a lot lol that officially puts the leafs over the cap unless Laine will be a sweetheart and take 8 million but I can guarantee if that were the case he would have already. No who plays top 2 lines RW in your gem of a scenario? Nylander plays 3rd line at 6.9 million? Marner at 10?

17 Sep 2019 11:34:38
Hard No here. He isn't even on the Dubas radar.

16 Sep 2019 19:51:03
Does anyone know how the leafs are going to get under the salary cap before season start? Ltir doesn't kick in until the first day of the season, meaning Toronto somehow has to shed 12 million dollars before the season starts. Or lose draft picks I believe if they remain over the cap, they can be disqualified from contention as well.

16 Sep 2019 21:08:14
They don't need to. Hyman and dermott being hurt is 3 million then the day of the season starting is the additional 10 million by way of horton and clarkson.

The problem is once hyman comes back they are over. that's not a concern to the leafs as they've shown they just know how to manipulate the cap since they have the guy who set those rules in place originally now working fir them. oh what a shame.

They will also have the highest payroll in the AHL and ECHL . that's the advantage of being rich. Leafs are starting to use their riches beyond the cap by hiring expensive coaches, staticians, doctors, trainers, ahl staff all the way down to the growlers.

On a side note
I just hope PTO invitee braden halverson gets to stay within Organisation somewhere.

16 Sep 2019 23:22:11
Yes but Horton and Clarkson count against the cap until day 1 meaning the leafs start over the cap. You have to be cap compliant before that time.

17 Sep 2019 01:08:24
Omg I think they have goofed they are in so much trouble
Lol. Randy you really need to chill.

17 Sep 2019 01:50:24
You have to be cap compliant by the time the puck drops in game number 1. I believe players can be put on ltir at noon that day.

Its something to look up though.

17 Sep 2019 08:31:09
I don't think anything would make me laugh more than if a GM actually messed up that bad sometime lol just didn't realize until opening day.

18 Sep 2019 12:17:58
Leafs are allowed to be 10% over until opening day. Further to that, Horton and Clarkson are permanent LTIR and their contracts will never count against the cap. It’s like they just don’t exist.

16 Sep 2019 18:54:43
just to save 2.5 million

to van
Kapanen

to tor
Virtanen
Joulevi

Virtanen is in Greens doghouse
Joulevi was once a great prospect

2 projects for babcock to work with

Kapanen gives vancouver a top 6 forward on their team even when Beoser gets signed



yeah another kapanen trade but not much else can happen without some cap money...this does that

16 Sep 2019 21:21:21
Rather keep Kappy that's the big thing. Only way I would be ok seeing Kapanen go is if it was for someone better than Ceci even though I do want to see what Ceci has to offer on a real team first.

16 Sep 2019 22:56:06
Yeah, i agree. i just don't see to many teams helping out toronto at all now. They are so over the cap but have manipulated it to the point teams will only take on cap if the player is good and they get rid of close to bust players.

I to would rather just keep kapanen but if cap must move out at some point i think kapanen may be the only option as nylander just makes to much for other gms to feel comfortable. You never know though.

16 Sep 2019 01:49:13
Expect no trades to happen until at least December. Why you might ask well right now we're capped out and have players injured. Hyman and Dermott come back in November and giving them an extra month should get them back to playing at their best. So until then our defence depth lacks a lot. But once December comes we can make a trade that involves Ceci to get someone like Ritchie or montour. By December Lillegreen should be nhl ready if he isn't already. So let's just say we do this trade. Once again don't hate on me please

Ceci, Timashov, 2021 2nd
For Ritchie. That saves us about 3.5 mill and our lineup would look like this in December.

Johnson Matthews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Ritchie Kerfoot Kapanen
Moore Spezza Petan/Mikheyev

Riley Barrie
Muzzin Dermott
Harpur Lillegreen
(Sandin Schmaltz)
(Marincin Holl)

16 Sep 2019 04:57:30
I don't even want to give up a second for Ritchie. I also don't understand why saving cap space is important unless a second deal is coming. Ceci off the books next year anyway.

16 Sep 2019 18:36:20
Why, why, why must you make the same trades, slightly tweaked, over and over and over again?

16 Sep 2019 19:01:13
@leafslife

I kinda think having a bit of cap space is important myself. Just a cushion of some sort in case of emergencies or can’t miss opportunities. I expect leafs will drop salary somehow once season gets underway. We need to have a cushion of some sort for deadline day. We can add a ringer or two to help take us all the way.

16 Sep 2019 21:23:54
@LeafsGm if it's a cusion to add someone I don't think a marginal move like that helps. You get 3.5 in savings so who you going to add? Possible but still. Also not sure what to add beyond someone to replace Ceci. Other than that what really needs upgraded at this point?

16 Sep 2019 23:13:16
3.5 million under the cap from the start of year would by the trade deadline turn into a 8.5 million worth player (1/ 3 left of his season contract) by how the day to day cap generator works.

the more days you are at or near the cap ceiling throughout the season leaves you less to deal with at the end. If the leafs can somehow manage to be a couple hundred grand under the cap every day by moving guys around on non game days they can pick up a 2 million dollar guy at deadline. its all about manipulation and they have the cap king at this.

The problem becomes every team will see the magic then get jealous and make getting that 2 million dollar guy nearly impossible. if the leafs weren't already hated by non leaf fans well they are going to be hated even more. oh well haters will be haters. love math and how it helps the leafs when the guys running the team know it better than any.

16 Sep 2019 23:24:14
Not just ceci. Barrie, Muzzin too. Only one can stay. Right now it’s hard to say. Barrie, Muzzin, or Dermott. Which two do you protect?

17 Sep 2019 00:15:04
Wait until deadline and see. What we enter the year with often does t match what we end the year with. Our needs change as tehe year progresses.

17 Sep 2019 08:32:02
Protect Muzzin and Dermott. Muzzin shouldn't be cheaper but he will be and Dermott is younger and a lot cheaper.