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10 Apr 2021 13:21:50
Cal
Barabanov .925
Kivihalme .725
2021 2nd

Tor
Bennett 2.55 (50% retained)
Stone .7 (50% retained)

RLF

1.) 10 Apr 2021 22:26:28
To have Flames retain on both, Barabanov and certainly Kivihalme does not move the needle

2nd helps but they would want a more proven player then Barabanov back. Flames may not go full rebuild mode but reset mode in offseason so again would want an NHLer back

Bennett is an NHLer Baravanov not sure yet.


 

 

08 Apr 2021 12:23:51
I have had many trade proposals of Willy going to NJ over the year and Wood is always coming back. If Willy is out with C.V., I would be looking to NJ again as they are obviously in sell mode. I would not be after the huge haul with prospects coming back as NJ probably doesn't want to move prospects.

NJ
Nylander 6.96
Marincin .7

Tor
Wood 2.75
Mcleod .863
Kulikov 1.15
2021 1st NYI

Marincin goes for contract purposes. Wood plays with Tavares and Gal. Kulikov provides D depth. Mcleod provides F depth. With the extra cap space, Leafs can now add Goalie insurance without sending a player back incase Freddie is out. We also have cap for next season.

RLF

1.) 08 Apr 2021 23:46:37
Jersey in full rebuild mode

-not taking Nylander's contract 3 more years at $7mil
-if they could trade Subban's contract with one more year remaining at $9mil, they would, no secret they've tried
-why would they trade 1st received from NYI they are in business of collecting picks not taking on salary?


 

 

06 Apr 2021 13:17:51
How about this

CLB
Kerfoot 3.5
Liljegren ELC
2021 2nd

Tor
Jenner 50% retained

Leafs gain 1.6 in cap space.


Hyman Matthews Marner
Galchenyuk Tavares Jenner
Mikheyev Engvall Nylander
Thornton Spezza Simmonds

RLF

1.) 06 Apr 2021 19:34:47
I like it.


2.) 06 Apr 2021 22:13:49
I think it’s a bit rich for a 30-40 point man I like what he brings but value is too high.


3.) 07 Apr 2021 00:34:13
What would Nylander give you on the 3rd line? As per your lineup

Dont say as much as he gives you on 2nd line

Ever heard of putting players in position to succeed? Would you put Spezza on 1st line?

Isn't this why Galchenyk is given opportunity on 2nd line not 4th?

Would you bring up Robertson to play on 4th line?

Remember square peg square hole

I know I'm being picky but when people post lineups after trades they put themselves out there for comments.


4.) 07 Apr 2021 05:13:41
Nylander goes on the third line because carrying the puck (Controlled entries) he is one of the top players in the world. He doesn't get that chance playing with AM, MM or JT.

Kessel played quite well on the third line didn't he?


5.) 07 Apr 2021 12:36:49
@Rocket9. Yes, when you post online you leave yourself open for comments. Some advice you should heed yourself when commenting on trades where you admit you know nothing about the value of the prospects or have trouble understanding a lineups construction.

Since you ask, and I am not sure why I am bothering when the question comes from a guy that uses a Habs nickname on a Leafs site because it is very likely I am conversing with a small creature residing under a low bridge.

On top of what LL said. You put Nylander on the 3rd line so he is up against lesser competition while playing with players that can match his speed. Both Mikheyev and Engvall use their speed and size well which should open up room for Willy. Willy should be able to dominate more against lower competition allowing him to spend more time in the offensive zone and less defending where he is weakest and least interested. Keefe already protects him by having him start mostly in the O-zone, this will also help Engvall as he is still learning the centre position.

The Tavares line become a skilled shutdown line and Tavares works best with grinders like himself. They have 3 good sized heavy style of players on that line. Jenner and Gal may suit Tavares better. Lines are also never set in stone, especially when you need a goal or need to defend a lead.

So you have the skilled line with HMM that dominate most nights, you have a grinding line with skill in GTJ, then you have a high speed line with MEN (now ironically called the MEN line) and a vet line that plays less minutes keeping their energy high with TSS.

Did I put Gal or Robertson on the 4th line? Did I put Spezza on the 1st line? Would I if it seemed to help the team? Yes. Robertson on the 4th line with Spezza and Simmonds is not the worst thing I could think of. Simmonds goes to the net and is there to protect Robertson and Spezza feeds him the puck. He plays limited minutes while learning the NHL game against lesser competition. So yes, that could work for Robertson while giving him some PP time.

But alas, I can only hope to know as much about hockey as you one day.


 

 

05 Apr 2021 20:21:43
I do like the idea of targeting Jenner and have put trades out for him in the past. Leafs go all in.

Clb
Nylander 6.96

Tor
Jenner 3.75(50% retained)
2022 2nd
Del Zotto .7

Columbus gets more high end talent that they lack. Laine is the shooter and Nylander the puck carrier.

Toronto gets Jenner paying a premium for his 1.5 years of retention. Del Zotto adds great D depth and another 2nd in the 2022 draft. They also now have over $4M in cap space for another move.

Leafs then make a second move

Cal
Kerfoot 3.5


Tor
Bennett 2.55

Calgary starts their re-tool by moving Bennett and get some speed in Kerfoot which they could use some speed.

Leafs pick up a project in Bennett who is known as a playoff performer and brings more grit than Kerfoot. Leafs now have about $6M in cap space gained. Could bring in goalie insurance and/or depth without moving anyone off of the roster.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Galchenyuk Tavares Jenner
Mikheyev Engvall Bennett
Simmonds Spezza Thornton
Robertson

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Del Zotto/Dermott/Bogosian

RLF

1.) 05 Apr 2021 21:11:43
I like these deals as they make Toronto harder to play against. Let’s just hope Matthews and Tavares can score even more as Bennett and Jenner don’t even come close to replacing nylanders offence

I still would love Leafs to take this chance as teams won’t enjoy playing leafs now.


2.) 05 Apr 2021 22:29:50
I like all the targets and the cap space. Only thing I would question is what can Nylander bring in return? I would assume a bit more.

I have a really hard time valuing Willy though. I know how we all feel about him but what's the word on him around the league?


3.) 05 Apr 2021 22:54:59
@LL. I put the over a years retention at 50% being the equivalent of a 1st. So would equal Jenner (at full cap), a 1st, 2nd and DelZotto. I would think that would be a really good return for Willy if we got that. The retention value isn't really seen, so it looks like we should get more. Of course I could be off on that.

@Craigger. Bennet and Jenner won't likely replace Willy's offence, but we have lots of interchangeable parts to move around to find chemistry. Jenner and Bennett's points combined this season almost equal Willy's, and 5 on 5 they have more, but that is mot the same thing. I don't believe we would struggle offensively, we would just be playing a slightly different style than with Willy. I have Matthews/ Marner as a pair and Tavares/ Jenner as a pair. Try Gal or Bennett with MM and put Hyman with JT/ J if needed. Or try Mikheyev in Galchenyuk's spot. There is also the wild card in Robertson. Maybe Dubas roles the dice and goes after a guy like Palmieri with the $6M in cap space. Plus playoff's are rarely about offence, it is about how hard you are to play against and still create offence. Just my thoughts on it.


4.) 06 Apr 2021 00:47:07
Probably high skill just has to many other skilled guys around him, he might do well somewhere where he's on the topline.


5.) 06 Apr 2021 02:11:29
Let’s break this down using recent examples
Jenner 1 year remaining after this year

Coleman for Vanc1st rd Foote (previous draft 27th overall)
Goodrow and Phil 3rd rd for 1st rd greco (26 yr old ahler)

So with that info Jenner is more valuable than goodrow but less than Coleman.

1st rounder and previous years 2nd rd roni Hirvonen
Then 650K (50%remaining) this year =6th rounder
Then 50 % 1.875 cap 1.75 salary retain 2 year= 3rd rd

Now Nylander. Top 75 winger in league with 3 years after this year remaining.
850K salary remaining this year
18 million over 3 years after this year
6.9 cap hit
Tough to find recent examples similar but here’s my best using name age at trade years/ salary remaining cap hit
Vincent trocchek. 26 2.25/ 11 million 4.75
Jason Zucker. 28 3.25/ 18 million 5.5

Haula Wallmark 21 and 23 yr old prospects for trocchek
1st rounder Addison (2 previous year 2nd rd) galchenyuk for zucker

So zucker contract remaining at time of deal is the same. He has pretty much same salary remaining but with smaller cap hit on it. I’d say nylander has skill edge as nylander is 4 years younger but not by huge amount and zucker shouldn’t regress that much by contract end

Trocchek is closer to nylanders age than zucker but has 1 less year remaining but less salary and cap per year than both as well. I’d put Trocchek a bit higher on the skill side but again nylander is 2 years younger

So somewhere between these 2 you should find a good trade.

Both trades had upcoming UFA cap dumps coming back
4.9 in Zucker deal for .6 differance
3.4 in Trocchek deal for 1.35 differance

Both got 2 young assets but due to extra year on zucker he Netted a 1st and 2nd basically while Trocchek netted a 2nd and 6th basically

So using those examples I’ll predict nylander gets a 1st rounder a 3rd round prospect and 2 upcoming ufa roster players worth 5.4 in salary dumps

Grigorenko
Savard
Pu
1st rounder

So to make deal work using Jenner for nylander

Jenner replaces grigorenko as cap dump player for temainder of this year. Nylander in turn replaces hirovanen value for remainder of this year but leafs still owe that 6th rounder for 50% cap retain on Jenner this year

Now nylander next year for Jenner with the retaining Columbus gives back that 1st rounder owing in Jenner trade plus the 3rd owed for retaining

Final 2 years of nylander cost 1st rounder Pu and savard

Overall it’s
Nylander 6th rounder

For

Jenner (50% retained)
Savard
Pu
1st rounder

That’s how I see it anyways. Leafs gain 675K in this deal plus $800-1 million once savard replaces 1 bottom pair dman, that's a 1.5 average cap saving. Add in Bennett deal and leafs save 2.4 million to go get a insurance goalie (Rittich) . Then have 5 million next year because of these trades to up Hyman to 5.5 (JT Miller comparable) and Bennett (4.0) leaving 300K. Use Andersen 5 million to give rittich a million raise. Give galchenyuk 3 million raise. Spezza Thornton 1.4 plus 500K of remaining Andersen money to cover 2 of 4th line as Engvall is here still. Dermott probably gone to Seattle. Savard bogosian 5.25 plus 500K of Andersen plus 300 of nylander trade remains. So Sandin liljegren play leaving 4 million to get a winger for JT and galchenyuk

Lol
That was fun.


6.) 06 Apr 2021 02:13:38
Nylander has way more value IMO.


7.) 06 Apr 2021 13:09:32
@Craigger. I will just comment on your end proposal as I don't have time to brush up on my calculus to go through all the rest. lol

If the Leafs could get that from Columbus for Nylander they should take it.

I have Jenner ranked higher than both Goodrow and Coleman, which would account for the salary differences in the first place. If we want Jenner at the cap of Coleman for a year+, it is going to cost us. Del Zotto is not a cap dump in my mind either. So, Coleman with no retention gets Foote (a high prospect) and a 1st (16-20 range) .

To me, Jenner with 50% retained is at least worth a late 1st, 2nd and really good prospect. At 1.9 he becomes a bargain and worth more than Goodrow or Coleman for sure. Del Zotto gets them at least a 3rd as he is a solid, physical 3rd pair D-man only making .7M.

Is Nylander at $7M more valuable than Jenner at 1.9M? Considering what the Leafs could add with that extra $5.1M, I am not sure he is. Jenner on the Leafs is a top 6 winger who can also play centre and is great on the draw and physical. Nylander is signed longer, so Leafs get the 2nd and Del Zotto (3rd) to make up the difference. CLB also takes on the extra $4.5 in cap hit and we get that cap space, so that costs us as well. CLB will make us pay if we want help with our cap.

Just my take, but to me, Jenner (50%), Savard, 1st and Pu would be a really good haul for Willy.


 

 

04 Apr 2021 14:53:13
I know many think the Bennett thing is dead, but I don't believe it is. It makes too much sense for both teams. No quarantine for one. Leafs cannot add a lot of cap for another.

Cal
Kerfoot 3.5

Chi
2021 4th(tor)
retain 50% of Bennett

Tor
Bennett 2.55(50% retained Chi)
Stone .7

A swap for underperforming players who are on the 4th line. I would think Kerfoot carries a little more value then Bennett at the moment, so we take pending UFA d-man Stone as well. Bennett is more playoff style than Kerfoot, but Kerfoot will bring speed to the Calgary lineup moving forward and they don't have to worry about qualifying Bennett or losing him for nothing.
Chicago gets a 4th for the retention on Bennett and the Leafs pick up depth while clearing another 1.5 in cap space. If Bennett works out, he should cost less than Kerfoot to re-sign saving them a bit more for next year. If he doesn't, Leafs expose him and/or don't qualify him and save the cap space. Kerfoot wasn't being protected anyway, so nothing really lost in the end except a possibility of a new player or more cap space. Same goes for Calgary with Kerfoot compared to Bennett.

RLF

1.) 04 Apr 2021 15:25:52
Rather keep Kerfoot he’s been playing well and produces more.


2.) 04 Apr 2021 23:27:31
Considering F - B. Lemieux was traded for a 4th, and with better numbers and paid less. My new market for Bennett is a 3rd. But an improvement or add of pick is needed to eat cap.


3.) 05 Apr 2021 13:55:49
I would say a 3rd for Bennet is about right now. That said, what is Kerfoot worth now? He is a 3.5M player signed for 2 more years playing on the 4th line. His last 5 games while now playing 4th line duties, he has 1 goal/ pt and is a -4 and a total of 2 hits. He hasn't produced on the 4th line really at all.
Production depends on where in the lineup you play for many players. Kerfoot as a 4th liner has not actually out-produced Bennett as a 4th liner.
Kerfoot has 16 pts to Bennett's 9pts and Kerfoot has mostly played in the top 9 with PP time. Bennett has mostly been on the 4th line with no PP time. Kerfoot being the better producer is a false narrative.


 

 

 

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08 Apr 2021 11:50:38
Rocket

I read your post. Did you read mine? You said it was too much for Palmeiri, I said if they were retaining 50% they will easily get a 1st plus. Bastian was also part of the deal, it wasn't just a 1st for Palmieri. Bastian is a big power forward who has shown he can drive the net and score at lower levels. Devils are playing him 4th line with limited minutes so the production is not there. It may never be, but he is a good prospect. You also said Dubas wants guys with term. Dubas has said the opposite for this trade deadline.
What is it that I need to re-read?

RLF

 

 

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07 Apr 2021 12:36:49
@Rocket9. Yes, when you post online you leave yourself open for comments. Some advice you should heed yourself when commenting on trades where you admit you know nothing about the value of the prospects or have trouble understanding a lineups construction.

Since you ask, and I am not sure why I am bothering when the question comes from a guy that uses a Habs nickname on a Leafs site because it is very likely I am conversing with a small creature residing under a low bridge.

On top of what LL said. You put Nylander on the 3rd line so he is up against lesser competition while playing with players that can match his speed. Both Mikheyev and Engvall use their speed and size well which should open up room for Willy. Willy should be able to dominate more against lower competition allowing him to spend more time in the offensive zone and less defending where he is weakest and least interested. Keefe already protects him by having him start mostly in the O-zone, this will also help Engvall as he is still learning the centre position.

The Tavares line become a skilled shutdown line and Tavares works best with grinders like himself. They have 3 good sized heavy style of players on that line. Jenner and Gal may suit Tavares better. Lines are also never set in stone, especially when you need a goal or need to defend a lead.

So you have the skilled line with HMM that dominate most nights, you have a grinding line with skill in GTJ, then you have a high speed line with MEN (now ironically called the MEN line) and a vet line that plays less minutes keeping their energy high with TSS.

Did I put Gal or Robertson on the 4th line? Did I put Spezza on the 1st line? Would I if it seemed to help the team? Yes. Robertson on the 4th line with Spezza and Simmonds is not the worst thing I could think of. Simmonds goes to the net and is there to protect Robertson and Spezza feeds him the puck. He plays limited minutes while learning the NHL game against lesser competition. So yes, that could work for Robertson while giving him some PP time.

But alas, I can only hope to know as much about hockey as you one day.

RLF

 

 

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07 Apr 2021 12:16:11
Yea, Bastian and "the big Russian d prospect" were obviously two different players. I don't really want Subban for one. The Devils would have to be looking to fast track the rebuild to do this.

RLF

 

 

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07 Apr 2021 12:13:33
Take out Engvall in the first deal and your values look about right to me.

@Rocket. Since you know nothing about Bastian, then how can you claim the trade is too much from the Leafs side? Plus Dubas has already stated he is probably looking for players without term this year. On top of that, the Leafs 1st should be in the the 25-31 range which historically is not better than about the top 5 or 6 2nd round selections. So the Leafs first has no more value then a high 2nd. 50% retained on Palmeiri should easily get the Devils a late first + a bit. Kerfoot is being moved for cap purposes as he will likely be moved in the off-season anyway and holds little value. Bastian is a better prospect than Abramov. Maybe do some research before commenting.

RLF

 

 

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07 Apr 2021 12:03:00
On top of that. I have no desire to have Eichel on this team nor do we need him.

RLF

 

 

 

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