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11 Apr 2024 13:13:09
What do you guys think it would take to get Jake Middleton? $2.45M for another season. I know he is an LD, but if the Leafs could get him and sign Roy, the top 4 is Rielly-Roy and Middleton-McCabe with Benoit-Timmins as the currently signed 3rd pair. Looks pretty solid enough. You could go cheaper and put Rielly and McCabe together and sign a guy like Carrier to play with Middleton.

Problem is that from what I can tell, Minny is still looking to compete now.

Would this work?

Liljegen RFA
Robertson RFA

Middleton $2.45M

Not sure if it works for Minny, as they have most of their team re-signed for next season. But it would allow them to move Johansson down to the 3rd line and try Robertson with Ek and Boldy, Liljegren would slot into 3RD and they get a little younger on the overall.


1.) 11 Apr 2024 17:31:13
RLF if you think Middleton can play 2LD, then I'm in. I would, however, like to get a mid pick back if possible (we are giving Minny to young cost controlled RFA's) .
I like targeting Roy as well, he is high on my UFA list.

2.) 11 Apr 2024 21:39:21
Looks good to me. I like Middleton well enough as well.

McCabe looks good on his offside right now, but is that something we want to commit to going forward? Depends on what's available I guess.

3.) 12 Apr 2024 05:30:27
What really hurts is that Dubas could have had Middleton from San Jose for a 2nd plus a prospect but instead choice to trade for Giordano (2 - 2nds & 3rd) when he could have signed Giordano in the summer for nothing.
Another one of Dubas’ multitude of blunders.
Instead Minnesota sent San Jose a 2nd plus Kahkonen for Jake Middleton.

4.) 13 Apr 2024 00:07:18
Not a good 3rd pair.



01 Apr 2024 20:47:15
So, this is the perfect target for the Leafs defence imo. I have brought up Lauzon many times, but he would be the perfect guy for the Leafs. Yes, he shoots left, but he plays the right side often and the Leafs need to chase a guy like Roy if he becomes available

Robertson RFA
Steeves RFA
Gregor RFA

Lauzon $2M
Afanasyev RFA

Nash picks up speed, youth and potential scoring. Leafs pick up a physical D and a player that could use a change of scenery, like Steeves, he has produced in the A.


1.) 01 Apr 2024 23:38:10

Robertson has some wheels

If Keefe installs Jarnknok to bench Robinson I don't know what to think but fire him!

2.) 02 Apr 2024 00:48:29
WeatherMac. Yes, he has wheels. This isn't the playoffs though. The better he plays, the more his value. I'm good with that.

3.) 02 Apr 2024 03:19:25
I don't know who Nash is but as we can see with Robertson he is going to be a perennial 30 to 40 goal scorer

Put robertson with Marner Holmberg down the middle then Tavaras between McMann or Knies and Nylander.

4.) 02 Apr 2024 03:31:05

Why do you insist on trading 22 year old Robertson when there is strong evidence he will put up 30 to 35 goals. I’m being conservative on that estimate it’s minimum he gets over 82 game.

You know Marner is one of the best set up men in NHL.


5.) 02 Apr 2024 06:03:03
@DM eight firsts. It would be insane to trade Robertson for less.

I'm also think of Mcdavid for Marner.

6.) 02 Apr 2024 12:15:15
weathermac. I just showed you what Robertson is worth. Tell me which actual 22 year old 30-35 minimum goals player you are referring to and I will tell you what kind of picks I think he is worth.

7.) 02 Apr 2024 20:07:14
What evidence is there he’s gonna score 35? He’s on pace for about 19 over an 82 game season. There won’t be room for him going forward.

8.) 03 Apr 2024 02:33:31
Robertson may go on to score quite a few goals in his career but the problem is, at the moment, he is a a fairly one dimensional player.
He has a great shot.
But he doesn’t defend well, doesn’t hit or block shots much, doesn’t penalty kill and isn’t a shut down player.

A lot will depend on whether Leafs resign Bertuzzi and/ or Domi.
Along with McMann and Knies there are only so many left wing slots available on a team and Robertson isn’t a 4th line player.
So that leaves 3 LW positions to fill.
If Leafs resign Bertuzzi and have just resigned McMann (a better 2 way player, and will definitely be keeping Knies, where does Robertson slot into the lineup.

9.) 03 Apr 2024 16:19:29
Agree WB.



31 Mar 2024 14:21:15

Robertson RFA

Jokiharju RFA

I had put this out before and it makes a ton of sense for both teams if Robertson is as good a s you say. Buffalo gets a "30" goal scorer and Toronto gets a mid pair RD. Both young. Both RFA's. Leafs can then look for a 2nd pair, Big LD which is easier to find than an RD, to play with Jokiharju.

Rielly McCabe
Big LD Jokiharju
Benoit (Boosh?)


1.) 31 Mar 2024 16:09:13
RLF do you really think Jokiharju is better than Liljegren?
I haven't really seen much if Jim, buy from what I have, he doesn't do anything for me.
If we're trading Robertson for a Dman I would much rather target Ferraro, who I think offers much more than Jokiharju. Don't know what else is needed from the Leafs in that deal, but this is the way I'd rather go.
And then target Roy or Pesce in the off season.

2.) 31 Mar 2024 17:15:37
Tags, yes, I think Jokiharju is better. I think he is smarter with the puck and his defensive reads are better. I think he is a #4 and Lily a #5. I would trade Lily and bring in Jokiharju if it was straight up for Robertson like I showed. You could still bring in Roy for instance.
Rielly Roy
McCabe Jokiharju
Benoit Timmins/?

I'm really good with that. Then if you can sign say Trenin (Yes, I am still on Trenin lol), who is playing 4C in Colorado btw, you start to build upfront as well. If this happens, then I am good with moving Robertson, Liljegren and probably even Jarnkrok if Domi and/ or Bertuzzi are brought back.

3.) 31 Mar 2024 18:10:43
RLF no doubt that could work, but I'm still not sold on Jokiharju as you are (I think he or Lily can play #4 spot with an upgrade at #3). Also, I think Jokiharju's next contract will be $1/ $1.5M higher than Lily's.
Rielly Roy
Ferraro Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Timmins or UFA (Bortuzzo, probably sign him for same as Timmins)

I think I'd rather trade Kampf in the off season and re-sign Dewar ($1.15M) 4C, he has shown we'll IMO.

4.) 31 Mar 2024 19:49:40
I would be ok young asset vs young asset

But regardless of what happens leafs this spring

They have dollars to fix the defence if we plug in what we have you see what’s missing

Reilly —————
McCabe Liljegren
Binot Niemelä

You could upgrade the 4 hole and slide Liljegren down to 6 th D

PESCE is a good target leafs just need to bid high.

5.) 31 Mar 2024 21:25:15
I don’t make that trade right now; maybe in the off-season we shop Robertson but I’d like to delay that decision until the year is over.

Jokiharju is another Liligren; everything except the number of games played screams the same thing.

Both 2017 picks, Lili 17th overall and Jokiharju 29th. Similar size, Lili’s offence is better. RLF mentions better reads; I don’t see him that much so I cannot really offer an alternative view except what I see the few times the Leafs play the Sabres.

Lili has played 193 games to Jokiharju’s 340 so again let’s see if Lili steps up his game. He’s carrying the puck with more confidence of late.

6.) 01 Apr 2024 00:41:40
Yes Rsears, I think we're all just talking about trading in the off season.

7.) 01 Apr 2024 00:44:17
Tags. Yes. I didn't think that part needed to be explained as no playoff teams make trades right now.

8.) 01 Apr 2024 12:41:31
I guess I was speaking more to making the decision later as opposed to right now.

9.) 01 Apr 2024 19:17:50
No explanation needed.
The TDL has come and gone.



26 Mar 2024 14:08:04
Big issue I see with the Flames is a lack of scoring. I am going to make a suggestion that the Flames and Treliving will put differences aside(should there be any) and Robertson goes there this summer.

Robertson RFA

2024 2nd(Dal)
2024 4th

Calgary picks up a potential scorer and Leafs pick up some much needed draft capital.


1.) 27 Mar 2024 01:15:27
See here you go with ur Robinson trade again

Leafs could fall to seventh

In a way it wouldn’t be so bad you get Rangers instead of Florida.

2.) 27 Mar 2024 03:10:33
Since the Leafs (Keefe) seems reluctant to play Robertson a 2nd and a 4th would be fine.

3.) 27 Mar 2024 11:51:58

22 years old and you write him off next year he puts up 30 goals . Last night 11.02 ice time was tied for most shots on goal 6 only Gregor and Knies had. Less ice time . He played with Knies and Holmberg . Knies is really struggling but everyone cuts him some slack and Holmberg doesn’t have much of a offensive game.

4.) 27 Mar 2024 13:00:03
Oh Mackin you fell into my trap!
See, now the Leafs can trade the 2nd for Evangelista and have a 4th as well that they didn't have by keeping Robertson. Hehehe.

5.) 27 Mar 2024 17:14:27
Robertson is not an NHL player. AHL all star.

6.) 28 Mar 2024 01:28:54
Need Robertson to up his value as much as possible and use him to bring in a solid top pairing right shot defenseman.

7.) 29 Mar 2024 01:32:55
David 1 Mac

If you reread my post you will find I am not writing off Robertson or anything of the kind.
I said, “since Keefe seems reluctant to play him”

If the coach will only play a player 10:00 - 11:00 minutes per game, it doesn’t matter how good he might become.

If Leafs are intent on resigning Bertuzzi and already having Knies and McMann as left wings, there does not seem to be much room for Robertson to receive increased ice time next year either.

Robertson and a 2026 - 2nd round pick to San Jose for Ferraro and Kunin would bolster the Leafs defense and 4th line with the impending departure of Brodie and Giordano.

8.) 29 Mar 2024 20:11:44
David, Robertson is done as a Leaf.
He will be moved this off season, so pick another favorite, maybe Matthew Barbolini.



16 Mar 2024 13:41:45
Going to change my last one a touch as most seemed to think they would do it, but not Columbus.

Robertson RFA
Steeves RFA
Minten ELC
2024 1st

Jiricek $1.9M(at NHL level)
2024 4th

I've removed Svozil who I really like. Is this more fair for CBJ?


1.) 17 Mar 2024 01:07:33
To get a high upside, young, RHD it is definitely worth it.

From Columbus’s point of view, Robertson has shown he has the potential to be a 20+ goal scorer given the ice time and offensive line mates.
Minten made the Leafs team out of training camp and could probably start as 3rd or 4th line center for Columbus next season.
Steeves is still young and has the upside to be a bottom 6 forward though if I was Columbus I would be asking for Tverberg or Grebyonkin instead of Steeves.
Plus another 1st round pick to build on.

I could see Columbus trying to pry Cowan lose from the Leafs instead of Minten which I would not do.

Good value for both teams.
Fits a major need for the Leafs.

2.) 17 Mar 2024 22:00:43
who do you prefer in lineup Jarnknok or Robertson I like Robertson and next year he is a whole lot better.

3.) 18 Mar 2024 01:11:18
@DM Jarnkrok, but what does that have to do with RLF's prop?




RLF's banter posts with other poster's replies to RLF's banter posts


13 Apr 2024 23:59:37
Also, am I the only one who is really tired of Nylander on the PK. He should be no where near the pk.


1.) 14 Apr 2024 00:11:00
Is anyone else tired of Knies taking stupid offensive zone penalties?
BTW how does Kampf miss that puck along the boards? He was right there.

2.) 14 Apr 2024 00:47:18
@Tags I'm getting tired of Knies taking them as well. They're just idiotic penalties.

@RLF I don't understand why Willy is anywhere near the PK either. He's poor defensively on the best of days, a liability on the worst days.

3.) 14 Apr 2024 00:49:35
Tags. Lol. Yes, Knies takes too many penalties, I have already said that on here. I was talking about the pk. Willy has no business being on the pk.

4.) 14 Apr 2024 01:03:15
I’m not a fan of the carelessness of Knies either. He needs to lift up the stick like Matthews and not hook and hold.

Agreed Tags. These penalties in the O-zone are stupid.

I’m not necessarily against Nylander getting some PK but there are certainly times when his effort is lacking. It’s these half-efforts that can drive me crazy.

5.) 14 Apr 2024 01:11:04
RLF we definitely need help on the PK and Willy definitely isn't the greatest defensively. All we have are Kampf, Marner and Dewar when he's in the line up. I guess Jarnkrok when he's back.
Maybe they need to give more reps to Holmberg, McMann and possibly Knies.

6.) 14 Apr 2024 01:36:50
@Tags McCann has a great 200ft game imo. I'd be running him out there as much as possible as well on the PK.

7.) 14 Apr 2024 02:04:07
Tags. I know you love Willy, my complaint was more about Keefe playing him on the penalty kill. He shouldn't be there. It's that simple imo.

Rsears. There should be no such thing as a lack of effort on the pk. That is why Willy should be no where near it unless your down by a goal late in the 3rd.

LL. Ding ding ding. McMann on the PK. He is one of the best defensive forwards on the Leafs. He identifies his man quickly and doesn't puck chase. Big body with an active stick. Just what you need on the pk.

8.) 14 Apr 2024 03:59:24
I get what you're saying RLF and I agree, Willy is not the most intense/ engaged player out there.
Agree on McMann and also think Holmberg is good on the PK.



13 Apr 2024 23:56:47
And there goes Samsonov's confidence. I really didn't think they should have put him back in tonight. Should have played Woll and gave him time to reset after Thursday's game. End of first and Woll should go in.




11 Apr 2024 23:52:15
When the 2nd goal went past Samsonov I got to thinking - if this keeps up with the puck going by him, does he get "injured" again. End of 1st as I write this. 3 goals on 7 shots. Interesting to see how mentally tough Samsonov is going forward.


1.) 12 Apr 2024 01:42:27
Those last two goals against. Yikes. Not a good sign.

2.) 12 Apr 2024 12:38:22
Team didn't help him at the start with those 2 bad giveaways, but yes, Samsonov was horrible last night. Get it out of your system now and regroup for Game 1. I think Samsonov should start against Detroit and then sit him till playoffs. Give Woll and Jones the last 2 games.

Someone mentioned that he may been more emotional than usual with the
Amirov tribute, maybe Samsonov was the Leafs ambassador for the family during the day.

Anyways, defense looked horrible, resting McCabe really threw a wrench into the pairings. Also Edmundson's first game back, I'm sure he'll be much better next game or two.
I think Leafs really need Lily back soon, especially with the D-group
they have. Hopefully he comes back
for a game or 2 before the playoffs start.

3.) 12 Apr 2024 14:23:57
Tags. Maybe the Amirov tribute was too much. I didn't consider that.

As for the game. The team wasn't their best defensively, but also gave up almost no shots, so I would say it was a bad defensive outing. Samsonov looked like his confidence was shaken after those first two goals on almost no shots. I would rest him Saturday. Let him reset and play him against Florida. I would want to know if he can standout against the team we will be likely playing or if his confidence is actually wavering.

4.) 12 Apr 2024 17:08:49
RLF I guess it wasn't completely a bad defensive game, but TOO many egregious defensive errors leading to easy goals. These have to be eliminated or at least cut to a bare minimum.
Gio, Brodie gafs were pretty bad, especially Gio's. But also Edmundson can't let Bratt squeeze through him and the boards that easily, it has to be stopped as well.



08 Apr 2024 14:21:26
Does anyone think Dewar is capable of the 3C spot?

If he was, I'd love to see my original thought on lines

McMann Matthews Marner
Domi JT Nylander
Knies Dewar Bert
Holmberg Kampf Reaves

Problem with Dewar is that he is not good on the dot and that is a necessity for a 3C. Especially if taking a lot of D-zone faceoffs. I don't see Dewar as a 3C mostly due to that fact. I'm not going to get into the Kampf at 3C debate, but switch Kampf and Dewar and I like it alot better.


1.) 08 Apr 2024 18:43:01
I mean I guess the stability of playing at home, letting him settle into a role I still want to see a line of Domi Matthews marner. The other part to accepting that long term deal is advertising, I'm sure being locked up long term would have companies trying to get both domos to do some adds for them.

2.) 08 Apr 2024 18:46:23
I think holmberg on 3c and dewar on 4th wing is more what I want to see. I also feel bad for Gregor, he had a great start to the year, just got cooled off. I really really like him as a 13th forward though.

3.) 08 Apr 2024 19:44:18
Kampf is still better at 3C imo.

4.) 08 Apr 2024 23:04:04
It’s a legitimate question, for sure. And you’re right about his poor FO stats.

For me, I’m not unhappy with Kampf, Dewar and Reaves against Florida. They have been solid and have chipped in a few lately.

Like you, I am a big McMann supporter. He can easily move up and down (L1 to L3). I think Marner could create scoring chances galore for him.

And maybe putting Domi with Tavares would change his pass-first mentality; his shot is pretty decent.

The only question I would offer is Bertuzzi on RW. He’s not a good puck-handler and he might have some challenges on breakouts on his off-side, especially with Florida’s aggressive punches.

Need to test it soon to see the results!

5.) 08 Apr 2024 23:16:33
So I’m seeing Bert on RW tonight so I guess he had some history.

6.) 09 Apr 2024 18:11:35
I’m surprised they never tried dewar there but seems like him and kampf have become a pretty good shutdown pair.



06 Apr 2024 21:58:39
I am going out on a limb and predicting that Robertson will not be noticeable tonight:)


1.) 07 Apr 2024 00:15:37
5 goals for Nicky Bobby. Have to keep the 30g pace.

2.) 07 Apr 2024 01:48:40
If you ain't first, you're last. to get into the lineup. lol.

3.) 07 Apr 2024 03:06:35
Ricky Bobby, lol.
Love that movie.

4.) 07 Apr 2024 14:06:14
NR was noticeable in his absence.

Liked the spread out offence.

MM could make McMann a bigger scoring threat!




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18 Apr 2024 16:24:20
LL. IIRC, there is something in their about the current Yotes ownership has 5 years to be able to bring a team back to Arizona or something like that. New arena site, Shovels in the ground on a new arena, finances in order etc have to all be done in 5 years. It is a strange situation. It's like the League is giving the owner $1B and 5 years to get it done and then charging the Utah group $1.2B to have the franchise, but Arizona ownership has 5 years to show they can have a franchise and likely the League then charges them a franchise fee. I don't know. It's confusing.




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18 Apr 2024 13:52:17
I believe the $1.2B is for lock stack and barrel. Players, management, equipment etc. The fees paid by Vegas and Seattle were just for the franchise fees. How does that all equate value wise? I have no idea.




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16 Apr 2024 12:50:30
So this time I distort facts to the outrageous and I get offended often. Just because you make offensive remarks doesn't mean I am offended. Attacking someone personally is just a really weak debate tactic in order to try and discredit their argument. It doesn't add any value to your argument and says more about you than me.

As for the Nylander analogy. So you're saying no one talks about how many more points/ goals a 3rd liner, like say Robertson might get if he played with Matthews and Marner. It only works one way and no one uses it in the opposite? Many of us have used the same type of analogy I did with Nylander. It is no different than saying if Nylander played on a San Jose for instance he wouldn't likely put up the same points. Your fishing to try and discredit again, That's all.

Project Acciari's points for a season and it's less than Kampf's. We project for seasons all the time. It's done often, even by hockey analysts. How come when I do it and it's a distortion of facts. Which you keep saying, but have yet to show how I've distorted anything. Just because you accuse it, doesn't make it true.

I have already stated before that this season Kampf's points are down. I also never said he would produce something like a 50-60 point season if he was 3C, so if that is what you are inferring I mean, then that would be on you. It's probably like 30-40 points and being very solid defensively. I'd be good with that as a 3C for $2.4M. You don't like him as 3C, that's fine.




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15 Apr 2024 19:49:05
I take it this was for me Rsears. sigh.

No one said to put Nylander on the 4th line. What are you talking about now. lol
The point was that even someone as talented as Nylander would have trouble scoring or putting up points if he played the role Kampf does. Not that hard to understand really. My guess is everyone else got the analogy. Analogies are commonly used in supporting an stance.

You do realize even if you project Engvall's production over 82 games it's only 3 pts more than Kampf and that included PP points. Remove the PP production and he had less than Kampf at even stength. Kerfoot who played lots in the top 6 only had 5 more pts and 3 of those came on the PP.

I notice you left out that Kampf had better point production than ZAR and Acciari as well. How come?

Again with the insults on a post I made that was not in response to you, but I'm the one who insults and can't stand being challenged. lol

Do you feel better? Did you get out all your anger and frustration toward me?

Maybe time for a timeout and you will feel better. lol.




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15 Apr 2024 19:22:33
Leafs67. It is weird isn't it.





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22 Apr 2024 12:56:16
I remember him getting hit around the redline last game against the boards and Willy was angry. You could tell he yelled at the guy. I think that is when whatever it is happened.




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22 Apr 2024 12:53:45
LL. That's it. You need a save. I remember saves from Swayman that I thought should have been goals, but I can't remember any that I thought Sammy saves a goal there. Especially on goals 2 and 4. The second goal by Carlo, Samsonov sees the shot and simply gets beat. They have a great replay of it where there is no real screen, he can see the shot. The 4th one, he overplays the down low pass and slides past his net, so when DeBrusk tips the pass out front he even still hits Sammy's arm and it drops in. Had Sammy not slid past the net, it hits him in the chest. Leafs outshot them like 36-23. 5PP's for Boston to 3 for Toronto and Boston scores on 2 of theirs and both came in the last 30 seconds of the penalties. I think that 4th goal was with like 4 seconds left in the PP.

I also would say what I said about our 3rd line coming into the series. We are not winning with a 3rd line made up of the likes of Holmberg, Robertson and Jarnkrok. Need a big heavy 3rd line.

My opinion. Need goaltending to be better. We need a big stop at a crucial time. Stop taking bad penalties and can't keep that 3rd line together.




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21 Apr 2024 23:43:43
Clarky. Same system they have played all year. How did Sammy see the puck prior when he was playing well then? I thought the game was pretty even. As I said below, penalties and goaltending was the difference imo. When you take too many penalties, offensive flow gets disrupted and your best players get cold and hard to get into a flow when you keep having to sit for stretches.
They need to stay out of the box and we need better goaltending. Can't have easy seeing eye shots go in. Yes there was a screen on a couple of goals, but the shots didn't go through 5 guys or anything. Both of those goals were one player screens pretty much. Samsonov has to look around those kind of screens. If he can't, he's letting in 5 every game.




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21 Apr 2024 20:51:18
Clarky. I'm not a big fan of Keefe's style of coaching either. If we don't get better goaltending and stay out of the box, it's going to be really tough and this is where coaching could make a big difference, but we know we don't have an advantage there either. How about we trade Keefe for Sullivan. Dubas would likely go for it.




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21 Apr 2024 12:45:22
I thought the team looked pretty good. Effort was good. Physicality good. They lost because of bad penalties and we are still seeing lost confidence Sammy, which is what I was afraid of. He is over playing his reads and can't find pucks through traffic. Really missed Willy and McMann.