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26 Nov 2020 10:59:38
Tor: kerfoot 750,000 rt dermott
Nyr: Schneider 2nd

Offer sheet cernak 3x3

Fixes Dubas mistake and brings in a good rhd who is young makes our righ side stronger

Leafs1994

1.) 26 Nov 2020 14:06:03
Schneider not playing organized hockey for a year and with his already poor skating I’d stay far away from him
But that’s just my opinion.


2.) 26 Nov 2020 15:11:04
He was playing in the would juniors for team canada and even so a lot of these young players can still go to Europe and play.


3.) 26 Nov 2020 15:14:51
He’s playing for Canada at the juniors also everything I read says he’s a great skater he’s exactly what the leafs lack in defence a physical two way player.


4.) 26 Nov 2020 15:57:39
Schneider was my choice as well. Since NYR traded up to get him, I doubt they move him unless it is in part of a big package for a more high profile player.


5.) 26 Nov 2020 18:17:02
Idk rlf I don’t think the rangers would want another big contract kerfoot gives them a legit 3C and dermott is better than most of their left side I think the risk is more on Toronto Schneider may turn into a dud but I think he’s worth the risk.


6.) 26 Nov 2020 18:17:14
Schneider was invited to the camp. With 6 2019 draftees probably getting the edge to make team since experience will be a forefront for this team due to time list due to the C.V.. Also with drysdale probably making team that leaves 1 spot for all the 2020 drafted players.

Schneider isn’t a lock to make this team so it’s false to report he is representing Canada. He can skate good for a bigger bodied guy but that doesn’t mean he is a great skater. Guys like Robertson and guhle (both team Canada invited Dmen) can skate better than him but he is better skater than say a Emil rasanen. Reports on big guys bro g able to skate well for big guys never means they can skate great. Just means they aren’t a pylon but aren’t elite either.

Schneider is good but not great. Leafs are signing their D once they are established and developing their forwards. Seems to be dubas way whether we like it or not.


7.) 26 Nov 2020 18:30:05
The draft is such a contentious issue. And it can be debated either way. Unfortunately, we won’t know the results for at least a few years.

I’m going to say some good things here. Because I do actually think the draft is one area that Dubas really does excel in. I do think he is an excellent evaluator of talent, and I have faith in the Leafs scouting department. Then I’m going to end on the negative (s) .

First, the focus on older European players this year was a smart choice by the Leafs. I counted three 19 year olds and one 20 year old (he was still draft eligible because of draft was when it should have been he was still 19). Out of 12 picks, that’s a full 25% of the players who were over 18. These guys are going to be NHL ready earlier (if they make it) and won’t have their development delayed by any league shutdowns. For a team that is going to be needing to constantly replace their bottom six players, that’s a wise decision.

The other thing I noticed that I liked is the fact they went off-grid with a lot of the later round players. There really isn’t a lot of information available on some of these guys. Even HockeyDB, which is the largest database of hockey players in the world, has no information on Fusco. They don’t even have his birthday listed, so I’m not sure how old he is. By drafting these relatively unknowns, Leafs have a better chance at finding a “late round gem” like Johnsson again. Again, I think this is a smart idea. Leafs are leveraging the resources of their scouting department and trying to find an edge, which is exactly what they should be doing with so many late round picks.

Now, having said that, I am going to approach the negatives.

I’m going to beat the same drum again that I’ve mentioned before a million times. The biggest knock against these guys is their size. The average size of an NHL player last year was 6’01” and 199.1lbs. The vast majority of the player prospects Leafs drafted the last few years were significantly smaller than this. While they may still fill out a little more, these guys are 18+ adult males. Young adults, true. But still adults. The opportunity for physical development at this point is limited. A few of these guys may have late growth spurts, but will it also be the same guys that have the skill to get into the NHL? That is impossible to say. Contrast our last three drafts to Ottawa. The difference is startling.

Even if the league is moving towards a smaller more skilled player approach, this is not going to happen over night. It will take years and years before the average size of an NHL player drops to the range that Dubas seems to think is ideal. In the meantime, our prospect players are going to be battling in a physical sport dominated by much larger and aggressive players. My own personal opinion on this subject is that a player that is 18 years old and already the size of an average NHL player has less of an uphill battle.

Any issues such as skating can be coached and worked on by the development staff. I am of the opinion that it is better to draft a guy that has a weakness in his game that can be taught, as opposed to drafting someone that is lacking something that just cannot be learned. Rodion is a good example. The biggest knock against him that I read was that he seems unable to compete at higher levels, and having him be a healthy scratch this year in a KHL league that has been decimated by C.V. would seem to be a justification of this.

I hate knocking down these guys. I really do. They are all good players. And when you see a guy like Abramov or Abruzzese doing so well in their respective leagues, you have to hope they will succeed at the higher compete levels as they get older and age out of junior and NCAA. And yet. Will they?

If you are of the opinion that the draft is a gamble, and that odds and probabilities are a factor, then it is impossible to ignore the fact that realistically, the vast majority, of not all of these guys, are going to be a lot closer to Nikolai Borschevsky than Martin St. Louis. When I look at the leader boards, I see a list dominated by individuals that are not of such nature.

Dubas has implemented a skill before size approach. He is drafting smaller skilled players because he thinks they are undervalued by the rest of the league’s GM’s. They are not. I honestly believe in the free market system. And the NHL draft is as laissez faire as it gets. These guys are not undervalued. They are valued exactly where they should be - at the point where someone is willing to draft them. In this case, Kyle Dubas.

It is a display of extreme arrogance that Dubas thinks he is smarter than 30 other GM’s in the league and that he alone has stumbled across the magic formula for success in drafting for the NHL. He has not. He is attempting to game the system, while imagining that the NHL will change to support his views on how the game should be played. The NHL is not going to change for a young upstart GM that has visions of grandiosity. Dubas seems to think he is progressive and the leader of a revolution. He is not.

In order for this strategy to be truly successful, 30 other GM’s have to buy into his vision in a very short period of time. Even if he is right in the long run, for the short term, which is really all that matters when you are advertising your team as a contender and only have a limit of four years at most with this core, he is fighting an uphill battle. Anything short of immediate success with this strategy is going to be seen as a dismal failure in a league and sport that has a short term memory and can’t see past the noses on their face.

While I can appreciate what Dubas is trying to do, I don’t have to agree with it. He is both a brave man, and a foolhardy one at that. It is a massive gamble by Shanahan to buy into this plan, and it is proving to be a hugely expensive and risky operation with no clear signs of success so far. The results seem to speak for themselves the last two years since Dubas took complete control. If it doesn’t work out, Dubas will be relinquished to history along the same lines as JFJ. He will have saddled the team with expensive contracts and gutted the depth, while failing to bring in appropriate replacement players through sound drafting.

I would rather not have a GM that thinks every move he makes is a gamble. History does not favour gamblers well. The vast majority of them go broke at least once or twice before they ever hit the jackpot, if they ever do.

Again, this is how I view the situation as it stands right now. I could easily be wrong and Dubas really is a genius that is smarter than everyone else. I hope so. I really do. But at this point, it is impossible to not at least question what he is attempting and to have doubts.

Was passing up Schneider the right or wrong choice? Impossible to say because we don’t know how either Amirov or Schneider will do in the NHL. What I do know is that RHD is the hardest position to fill in the NHL. Leafs have been lacking a proper 1RHD for upward of a decade or more, and we have exactly one prospect player for that position currently. We are stacked at forwards and have a few in the system that loom like they will be successful NHL’ers of some capacity. We don’t need more forwards, unless you are pre-supposing an exodus of talent in a few years, which would be a defeatist outlook - admitting years in advance that you won’t be able to re-sign your star players and are looking at finding a replacement now.

Even if Rodion really was the best player available, how much better is he at his position than Schneider is at RHD? Most scouts and nhl departments organize prospects in tiers. It is more than reasonable to assume that given their draft positions that Schneider and Amirov are in the same tier. As such, it would make sense to me to draft an equally capable player for a position of need than to take a guy that is more of the same of what we already have.

Dubas is playing an extremely risky game not only with the team's payroll, but also with the roster. The ground is rapidly shrinking beneath his feet as a result.


8.) 26 Nov 2020 20:01:24
@Leafs1994. Let's look at it a different way. Would you trade the 19th overall pick and a 2nd round pick for Kerfoot at 750 retained and Dermott? I would doubt it. I know I wouldn't.
Now if the deal was say Nylander for Buchnevich (who needs a new deal next year), a lower prospect like Gettinger and Schneider, I think that is the type of move the Rangers would have to consider moving Schneider for. They send out some cap, but bring in a better player then they sent out and Schneider is the only way to make that happen. Just my opinion of course.


9.) 26 Nov 2020 22:53:09
Great read and amazing views both ways hockeyluvr. Open minded in all aspects well done

I’m just not a huge Schneider fan yet so my luck he will become a stud.


10.) 27 Nov 2020 11:22:47
I think that was my best Dubas rip yet. Lol.


11.) 27 Nov 2020 16:22:07
@HL-Yep, it is like you praised the turkey for eating so well and kept encouraging him to do so, right before you lopped off its head, cooked him and served him with a side of cranberry sauce.


 

 

25 Nov 2020 01:59:54
Tor: Engvall Korshkov
Ott: Bernard docker

Ottawa has an embarrassment of d prospects leafs need to gain a good rhd prospect Engvall and Korshkov are two player who are nhl ready

Leafs1994

1.) 25 Nov 2020 14:08:35
Ottawa loves Bernard-docker. Can’t see them giving this good young kid up for 2 older players.


2.) 25 Nov 2020 14:29:40
My only knock would be they won’t be able to keep them all and it may take more to get him who knows.


3.) 25 Nov 2020 16:29:31
If it’s true that you build a successful team from the back end out, and “defense wins cups”, then you have to admire what Ottawa is doing right now. Because defensemen take longer to develop than forwards, it makes sense, if you can, to draft the core defensemen the first couple years of the rebuild and follow it up with the core forwards after. This way everyone will hit their peak at the same time. Very difficult to do, but not impossible.

Ottawa has the foundation in place to enter a new compete level very soon. Unfortunately for fans of the Blue and White, Ottawa should peak just as Toronto’s will be declining again. Perhaps sooner, depending on how fast Ottawa ascends and how fast Toronto falls.

Keep an eye on the rear view mirror. Those very same teams that were so far beneath us last year won’t be for long. Even Buffalo made strides this year with the signing of Hall. It might just be enough that with a hot start again, they could actually make the playoffs this year. Whether that is at Leafs expense depends on the play of our heroes.

Leafs went from finishing last in the league, to making the playoffs the very next year, to finishing the regular season with 105 points the year after that. If Leafs can do it, than any one of those guys can do it too. I assume Yzerman is going to do everything in his ability to tank the team for Wright. If he succeeds, that could be the capstone to complete the rebuild.


4.) 25 Nov 2020 17:36:48
I agree that’s why I think and probably most of the people on here think Dubas missed big time not drafting Schneider who has a lot of potential.


5.) 25 Nov 2020 18:59:53
That's what I was thinking as well HL. Ottawa probably wants to tank one more time after that though, they have a very good young team.

Even a team like FLA could have easily passed us this year if Bob played like a vezina winner.


6.) 25 Nov 2020 23:19:39
Basically first 5 rounds of draft dubas drafted only players who were playing hockey at the moment of draft. Schneider isn’t and wasn’t playing organized hockey so dubas passed. Development of this season was essential for being picked by dubas is first 5 rounds.


7.) 26 Nov 2020 02:35:43
The one thing about Ottawa is that as long as Melnik is the owner, they aren't spending to keep all these great prospects as they come out of their ELC's and want to get paid. Some really good young Ottawa players are likely to become available when they won't sign cheap bridge deals.


8.) 26 Nov 2020 06:18:44
Very true Craiggers. I can't blame him at all this year though. If your ineligible for Europe and only the NHL and AHL are open they miss an entire year of development.

Hard to say from where I sit RLF. He's definitely up there with the cheapest owners but he could stand to make some serious money if they can turn all these high end prospects into a couple of cup runs.


9.) 26 Nov 2020 14:10:15
True LL. But I will never forget that "interview" he oechestrated where he had a player talk with him and tried to say they were being competitive etc and wanting to win when everyone knew they were under talented and going to be horrible. I doubt he spends to keep all these guys.


 

 

24 Nov 2020 01:28:23
Tor: Liljegren
Buf: mittlestad

Both players could use a fresh start buffalo has zero d prospects and have a lot of dmen on expiring contracts as for the leafs we get a good young player that probably won't make an impact right away but next year he could also I wouldn't use him as a center he's seems like a winger to me his defensive numbers are the only thing that worries me

Leafs1994

1.) 24 Nov 2020 03:02:09
I like this trade! I agree Casey would probably get a shot along side of Mathews. That said he’s in the basement for a reason! Once again nice trade.


2.) 24 Nov 2020 08:24:27
I am not a fan of Lili-bust. I think this trade is great. Well done.


3.) 24 Nov 2020 14:53:10
Buffalo has some very good prospects on defense. Samuelsson, Johnson, and Jokiharju can still be considered as a prospect. And to a lesser extent they have Fitzgerald and Bryson.

Lily-bust is our only good prospect at RHD. Mittle-bust is busting out a lot faster.


4.) 24 Nov 2020 18:10:42
Hockwyluvr if you think both are bust then their is minimal risk and high reward yes buffalo has a few d prospects but nothing for rhd prospects Jokiharju is not a prospect he’s got over 100 nhl games and like I also mentioned they have 5 out of 7 dmen are on expiring deals which means they probably won’t bring them all back the leafs don’t have any rhd prospects but with their moves they made unless some guys get hurt like last year or are really bad I don’t see Liljegren making this team The leafs need to move some prospects that are not going to get a chance and use them to try and gain other assets.


5.) 24 Nov 2020 23:18:15
I don’t consider them both busts. Only Mittlestadt. Liljegren is a defenseman and is younger. He still has a few more years before we can decisively call him a bust. Mittlestadt is a forward and a year older. He is quickly aging out of prospect territory.

I didn’t realize Jokiharju had over 100 games played. Technically he isn’t a prospect anymore, you are right. But at 21 years old and only one (almost) full season of play, I got to think that he has a lot of developing to do still. He has not hit his ceiling yet. If Foote, Liljegren, etc are all considered prospects still, then Jokiharju can be as well. They were all drafted the same year.

Just my thinking anyway. I know the technical prospect cutoff is 25 years old or 50 NHL games played, whichever comes first. But that’s arbitrary.


 

 

19 Nov 2020 15:51:11
Tor: 5th
Tbl: Joseph

Tor: Nylander
Njd: Foote 1st 2021 top 3 protected

I see a lot of people trading either marner or Nylander for other top players but I really think the leafs need to look at gaining future I really think Robertson is ready now and fills Nylanders spot so leafs get Foote who has great potential and would be able to let him develop in the minors and grab another pick who is probably top 10. As for the Tampa trade they need the cap space I really like Joseph he reminds me of a Hyman really hard forechecker and adds some offence for basically nothing would be a good fit on the third line

Leafs1994

1.) 19 Nov 2020 17:05:22
Joseph is an RFA, and only made 729K last year. That doesn't offer Tampa the kind of Cap relief they need, so I don't see a fit on that one.

I don't see a rebuilding team like NJ giving up a 1st and a prospect either. Its not what rebuilding teams do. If they want more scoring, they can sign someone cheap like Hoffman. They have the cap space if they want to use it.


2.) 19 Nov 2020 18:25:50
Joseph is buried.

I think you mean Johnson? Johnson was waived though and nobody picked him up, so I don’t think Dubas would trade anything for him now unless Tampa retained.

If you move Nylander for futures, you free up a significant amount of cap space too. That could be very valuable if it becomes necessary to acquire another top 4 RHD. We have a lot of “depth” at that position, but not a lot of top end talent. Nobody would call Holl a true top 4 RHD. He more or less qualifies by default.


3.) 19 Nov 2020 18:31:33
Even if Joseph didn’t make much last year it’s still an asset they are gaining for a player they can’t resign as for New Jersey in order to get out of a rebuild you have to add guys too Nylander fits the age of that team well and is already signed for a number of years at reasonable price guys like Hoffman are not going to sign a deal of a rebuilding team unless it’s a one year deal and a promise that he will be moved at the deadline.


4.) 19 Nov 2020 20:02:53
Both trades are reasonable value. Joseph is likely worth more than 5th, but TB has no cap room to sign him, so they take less.

Nylander trade is basically a late 1st and possible top 10 pick this year, plus $7M in cap space. That $7M could buy a lot including making room to re-sign Hyman, Rielly comfortably and have room left over. Sometimes it is the part that is not seen in the deal that has a lot of value.


5.) 19 Nov 2020 22:16:00
This is what I was thinking RLF sometimes it’s hard to explain what you are thinking.


 

 

17 Nov 2020 01:42:04
Tor: Nylander
Cgf: lindholm

One for one their stats are very comparable the flames get the younger player that has more term and the leafs get the 2 mil in cap space and also adds a replacement on the pk for kappy

Leafs1994

1.) 17 Nov 2020 15:24:20
I think calgary adds a high end prospect or pick. Because younger and signed longer. So 2 pros for calgary one for toronto in cheaper.


2.) 17 Nov 2020 15:31:00
Cgy: lindholm, wolf, Phillips, 2021 4th
Tor: nylander, marincin

Hows that?

Works out to
Lindholm, 7th, 6th, 4th
Nylander, bag of pucks.


3.) 17 Nov 2020 17:24:49
I would do this from a Leafs perspective, not sure Calgary does though. I doubt they are adding if they do. Lindholm is a really good two way centre who can put up comparable stats to Willy for $2M less.
We may be the ones adding something.


4.) 17 Nov 2020 18:29:15
I watch a fair bit of flames games, lindholm is nowhere near the skill nylander is. If leafs did one for one they lose this deal.


5.) 17 Nov 2020 18:44:04
If you watch a lot of Flames games, then you also must see that Lindholm does many things that Nylander doesn't that are not about skill. It is not all about talent for talent. There are the the other parts of the game and a salary cap. Nylander is more talented than Tom Wilson, but I doubt the Caps would do one for one.


6.) 17 Nov 2020 19:29:17
Yea even if Nylander has more skilled I’d still rather the cap space there will be a lot of good rentals this year and with cap space the leafs could come out looking really good in this trade.


7.) 18 Nov 2020 01:46:49
Idk, personally that line was so disappointing last year lindholm included. He looked okay on the defensive side of the game, I still take nylander over him 1 for 1. I don't think I asked for crazy big pieces in return. They have their starter for 6 years. They don't need wolf. The other guy is tiny and fits dubas' mould of player. People would be saying nylander for lindholm is the next barrie for kadri deal I also think brodie is going to drive some on this site crazy. he's a solid semi defensive presence 90% of the time. The other 10% he's jake gardiner.


8.) 18 Nov 2020 05:55:41
Agree with you there Randy. People don't always realize Brodie does have his defensive lapses.

Personal opinion though, it isn't that he's perfect it's that compared to the pile of garbage that has been paraded out for years at RHD he is the best thing we could have ever hoped for.


9.) 18 Nov 2020 13:17:01
No matter whom u think is better (personal opinion) Calgary would owe based on age and term difference of contracts between the 2 players as both players cap hits and salaries are comparable to each players worth.


10.) 18 Nov 2020 16:01:58
Production is about the same, so if I'm CGY, I'd keep my guy and decline the trade, and save the 2.1M in cap space.

CGY only has 1M in cap space left, so I really don't see why they would consider this deal.


11.) 18 Nov 2020 19:04:49
Lindholm is only 1.5 years older. No big deal there.
Contacts are for the same length and production is very similar. Calgary doesn't score as much as Toronto. Nylander 13.1% of Leafs goals. Lindholm 14.2% of Calgary goals. Put Lindholm on the Leafs and maybe he pots 40.

Lindholm is a more complete player and costs 2.1M less for the same length of contract. Calgary isn't adding and if they would, take it. I would take Lindholm over Nylander right now straight up with all things considered including contract.


12.) 18 Nov 2020 19:50:04
I probably would as well RLF if this was offered. He adds that extra element and beside MM+JT he can look even better.


13.) 18 Nov 2020 20:15:57
Yeah I didn’t look anything up here just took what I was reading in this topic by everyone. One person stated nylander was younger and signed longer thus Calgary adds. If that was all true I was agreeing. Too bad once you research you find out the truth.

That’s why I research and give opinions after my research findings. This time I did not there for I appear to be a fool. Last time I believe what I read just to cut some minutes off my time. Next time I research

Sorry everyone

In closing lindholm is only 1 draft year behind nylander and is signed exact years. He is also much cheaper and is on par at this moment with nylander production wise. I feel nylander has better upside offensively but for now they are pretty close. Lindholm also has better contract because he never got over 45 points in his first 4 years. Then he goes to Calgary and produces thus now his contract looks awesome. He is over performing his contract now and due to that Calgary keeps him over taking on nylander who hit 60 points 2 times in first 3 years thus got a contract worth his value and is now playing marginally above it right now.

There research and facts is much more efficient than just taking someone’s word. Me bad sorry bout that y’all.


14.) 18 Nov 2020 21:35:52
Lol. I had to look it up as well Craiggers. At times it seems like some players have been in the league forever even at 24yo.


15.) 19 Nov 2020 01:02:44
My bad on the contract I thought I remembered last time I was on flames cap friendly that he was 2 years left on his deal.


16.) 19 Nov 2020 17:40:22
CRAIG - apologies not required, we're just a bunch of hockey junkies spit-balling trade proposals. 👍

The only apologies needed are the small few who waste everyone's time with perpetually down-voted nonsense. You're alright kid!


 

 

 

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27 Nov 2020 12:44:40
Man that’s a tough one idk if I’d like the Nylander one but I think it’s pretty close to what the leafs would get I wouldn’t trade for Killorn but rather give Robertson that spot or go sign Hoffman to a one year deal Killorn a big body but his offence has really fallen off.

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26 Nov 2020 18:17:02
Idk rlf I don’t think the rangers would want another big contract kerfoot gives them a legit 3C and dermott is better than most of their left side I think the risk is more on Toronto Schneider may turn into a dud but I think he’s worth the risk.

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26 Nov 2020 18:15:03
Only way you get McDavid is with Matthews going the other way.

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26 Nov 2020 15:14:51
He’s playing for Canada at the juniors also everything I read says he’s a great skater he’s exactly what the leafs lack in defence a physical two way player.

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26 Nov 2020 15:11:04
He was playing in the would juniors for team canada and even so a lot of these young players can still go to Europe and play.

Leafs1994

 

 

 

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