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Ares99R's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Ares99R's rumours posts
15 Aug 2020 06:09:32
With so many variables to consider when proposing a trade, and not being privy to behind the scenes, I've decided on a different approach. What I think the Leafs might/should do:
1. Assuming the Leafs still have the financial might despite these challenging times to use some of Brandon Pridham's cap management magic by finding new dead money contracts to replace the expiring ones of Horton and Clarkson. Off the top of my head and without looking at other rosters, I'm guessing there may be a few dead contracts the Leafs could pick up to extend their cap ceiling for things like...
2. Picking up the phone and dialing Pieterangelo's agent to find out whether he would consider coming to Toronto and for how much. There's been speculation of him staying put in St. Louis, but maybe there's a chance...
3. At the same time, Dubas should be looking at teams and identifying top defencemen under 25 who are either top four or with potential to be top four. Jaccob Slavin would be one of my top targets for the Leafs although it was rumoured Dubas inquired about him last year and was told it was a non- starter. I am not even sure what the asking price would be, but maybe they would be interested in a Nylander as part of a return. Perhaps it would take even more like a Marner in which case some serious debate would go on whether to trade the heart of the team. Unlikely...
4. Which then brings me to the second tier of defenders and soon to be free agents. Do we look at signing 2-3 guys like Krug, Hamonic, Brodie, Vatanen, Shattenkirk, Tanev, or Gudas? Personally, if I had to pick from this group, I would lean towards Tanev, Brodie and Gudas.
5. I would be on the phone calling Byfuglien's agent and inquire whether Dustin would consider playing for the blue and white? Of course, Byfuglien would need to be healthy enough to play.
6. Look at making a splash by signing Hall to a contract and possibly replace a couple of the forward corps that would be making their way out via trades (see #3). Hall would add another elite forward with some bite. Something the Leafs were lacking at times. Perhaps failing that, someone like Toffoli could be a cheaper option.
7. Following Friedman's suggestion about Joe Thornton coming to TO. I think it's unlikely but wouldn't hurt to ask.
1.) 15 Aug 2020 07:05:14
I'm not a big fan of hall. He's probably the most selfish player with the puck and without the puck I have ever witnessed. He's such an odd guy. All the talent in the world but just seems to need perfect linemates.
Gudas doesn't look good these days. Would love to have him as a bottom pairing guy but that's about all I would give him at this point.
If anyone can work some cap magic it is indeed Dubas and co.
Love to have Petro on the team. Even if Marner was traded for picks and prospects and Petro was brought in I would call that a win.
2.) 15 Aug 2020 14:03:27
LeafsLife,
I’m in agreement with you on Gudas. I didn’t picture him any higher than as a third pairing guy. Although the Leafs have a number of guys who can play on the third pairing.
I chose Hall as a former MVP who might adds a few intangibles to the Leafs. If he is as you say character wise, then I’m sure the Leafs will do their due diligence. They sent Kessel packing in part because of his attitude. Perhaps they could fill any forward depletion’s internally as that’s been more of an area of strength.
3.) 15 Aug 2020 20:08:37
Hall is a selfish player in every way possible, both on and off the ice. He was probably assuming he would get a $10M contract this summer too. the virus screwed him on that too.
When he was traded from Jersey, I remember reading a quote from one of the other players on the team saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, something along the lines of "it's made life a lot easier for us. We no longer have to try to get the puck to one player anymore. It has opened up a lot of options and really lightened the mood in the locker room".
Something to that effect. That about says it all for me too regarding Hall. If he came to the Leafs, he would be our 4th or 5th best player, but would expect to be treated like our best, and paid like the rest of them too.
I'd rather we didn't pursue another big name free agent like Hall. We got enough overpaid greedy selfish "me-first" players on the team.
4.) 15 Aug 2020 23:10:08
If the Leafs can lure Buff out of retirement and that's a big if, they would have to pay him $5 plus mil for the year, which the Leafs can't afford. No famous Toronto hometown discount here.
5.) 16 Aug 2020 00:55:04
Hard to take any of what you wrote in that long speach when in one of them to mention Nylander as "The Heart Of The Team"
dont want no more LTIR guys
Buff i'd no longer the stuff
Gudas going to want to much for bottom paid D and tanev in injury prone
and i am sure every team in nhl is just dying to trade their best under 25 Dmen to the under privaleged Leafs. just cause. they're the leafs.
6.) 16 Aug 2020 01:12:43
Lol. If buff wants 5m good luck to him.
7.) 16 Aug 2020 03:34:46
Hockeyluvr - I had no idea about Hall as I haven’t been following him that closely. Like I mentioned before, if the Leafs do their due diligence and find that he would be a potential problem in the dressing room, then I am sure they would pass on him or any other with a similar attitude.
Islandjet - All I was saying about Buff is for the Leafs to kick every tire and see if there is a fit. Obviously if it doesn’t make sense with their cap, they won't do any deal.
Loxley1972 - I was referring to Marner thank you. You’re missing my point about the ‘LTIR guys. ’ Toronto’s cap this year was an additional 10 million or so with Horton and Clarkson. That’s an extra 10 million to spread around their roster and take advantage of their financial might where other teams would be unable to. Imagine if Toronto could find ways to do this repeatedly year after year. Imagine what they could add to their roster.
LeafsLife - we were paying Ceci 4.5 million this year right? Wouldn’t you rather have a healthy Buff for 0.5 million more over Ceci?
8.) 16 Aug 2020 23:40:48
i'm not missing your point on LTIR. but i have looked and have read articles on someone that looked into it and there is nobody available that really makes sense on a long term LTIR like we had with Horton. most are for only 1 season maybe 2.the best one was talk of Seabrook but then at the time the article was published there was talk Seabrook wants to try playing which means trading for him now could be risky if he can come back to play. As for the Marner thing i still have my doubts and not ready to call either him or Nylander the heart of the team. especially when he comes out and says he was not into game 1.really Mitch? 11mil a year not incentive enough to get your head in the game?
9.) 17 Aug 2020 00:58:13
Loxley,
If that is the case and there are no LTIR contracts worth obtaining, then that’s fine. I didn’t look into detail myself as it was a suggestion. Your response previously was ‘dont want no more LTIR guys’ as you so eloquently put, which implied a different understanding.
I’m in agreement with you Marner’s performance during the play in round was well noted. However, in his defence, this has been a very weird and difficult year for professional sports and everyone for that matter, that goes beyond money. Before all this Marner played hard and with heart on almost every shift. I won’t judge Marner on such a small measurement, when he’s shown so much more over the course of his career and with the Leafs.
19 Jun 2017 18:13:07
My apologies if this post is redundant to any others previously posted. These are some suggested trade ideas for the Leafs at the 2017 Entry Draft.
While JVR has often been discussed in possible trade rumors for a top four defenceman, his value has been equally debated in whether he would yield such a return.
If the case is that JVR would never yield you a top 4 defencemen, and if Toronto's long term plan doesn't include keeping JVR, then why not consider trading him for a player(s) who have the potential in becoming a top four D?
At the 2017 NHL Draft I thought of three possible scenarios:
1. Tops on my list would be for Toronto to trade up to select Liljegren should he fall out of the top 10. His stock may have dropped enough that he slides out of the top ten (this years Chychrun).
Option A
TOR: trades 17th overall pick + JVR
FLA: 10th overall pick (Liljegren)
or
Option B
TOR: trades 17th overall pick + JVR
LA: 11th overall pick (Liljegren)
If Toronto wishes to hold onto JVR perhaps they do what Phoenix did in last years draft when they flipped picks with Detroit to take Chychrun.
Option C
TOR:trades 17th overall pick
LA: 11th overall pick (Liljegren) + Gaborik (salary dump)
or
Option D
TOR: trades 17th overall pick + Lupul (salary dump)
LA: 11th overall pick (Liljegren) + Gaborik
2. Another Draft day idea to do in addition would be to:
TOR: JVR
STL: 20th overall pick and the 27th overall pick.
Then with the 20th overall pick Toronto could select either (Hague/Vaakainen/Vesalainen) and for the 27th pick select (Ratcliffe/Thomas/Timmins).
The rationale here would be to draft either Vesalainen or Ratcliffe to eventually fill JVR's slot on the wing. In the meantime, stop gap options for the wing could include Rychel and Leivo.
The second pick would continue to address defence needs as Hague (assuming he's still on the board) Vaakainen, or Timmins would be added to the fold.
Other possibilities to draft would include Thomas or Norris to address Center deficiencies.
3. The third possibility in addition to the other two moves would be to trade:
TOR: Gardiner + 2017 2nd Round pick
DAL: 3rd overall
From here and depending on the other latter moves, Toronto decides whether to draft a center (Glass/Vilardi) or defenceman (Heiksanen/Makar).
Overall Summary:
Toronto players on the out: JVR, Gardiner, Lupul, 17th pick, 2nd overall pick
Toronto players returning: Gaborik, 3rd pick (i.e. Vilardi), 11th pick (i.e. Liljegren), 20th pick (i.e. Vaakainen), 27th pick (i.e. Timmins)
1.) 20 Jun 2017 03:15:00
I think the smart thing for the leafs to do is trade up for Liljegren. I like the way your thinking.
2.) 20 jun 2017 04:55:52
absolutely the dumbest thing i have ever seen omg!
3.) 20 Jun 2017 13:46:49
Hey, new here, just looking for a little clarification. Could you explain your reasoning for the valuation of JVR+17th for the 10th or 11th versus Gardiner+2nd Rounder for the 3rd overall? Thanks!
4.) 20 Jun 2017 15:07:41
Some mock drafts have Liljegren dropping down to the 17th pick and even lower. I would love to see Toronto draft him at 17 but I find it unlikely that he will drop that low, despite the inconsistencies in his performance, missed games, etc. I really believe he will be taken sooner. But I also believe that he may be a player who has somewhat fallen out of favour with some teams picking higher, who value other players more. While there are good defence prospects in this draft, Liljegren, I believe has that potential to be a top 2. While some of the other potential first rounders have more of a top 4 potential. Liljegren may end up being a bust as well but the way he moves and skates, you can’t help but wonder if he could be Toronto’s version of an Erik Karlsson. JVR is part of an older regime here in Toronto. As good as he played, we know Marner is the straw that stirs the drink on that line. At times, it looked as though Marner carried his linemates. JVR’s value is at it’s peak. You know what he is and you know what he can give you. Is there more to his game than what we have seen? Toronto should capitalize on his trade value asap. Yes, they could sign him, and yes, he just might accept a hometown discount to fit into Toronto’s long term plans, but Toronto has an abundance at forward with more players ready to challenge for position.
The Gardiner trade is apples and oranges to JVR. I would be willing to revise my trade proposal for Gardiner by adding another prospect or two, but I wouldn’t go so far as to include one of the big three (i. e. Nylander, Marner, Matthews. ), or Toronto’s 1st round pick. In fact, no Leaf 1st round pick should ever be traded. I wouldn’t trade Brown or Hyman either as they both factor in long term and they will become important role players in rounding out a roster. How great is it that Toronto has them at such a young age?! The Gardiner trade isn't one that I would expect Dallas to accept despite the fact that they would benefit from having someone like Gardiner in their line up. But Dallas needs a defender, and coupled with this year’s draft discussion on how it’s not as strong, and some teams already rumoured to be utilizing their 1st round picks for LVGN side deals, why not kick tires on possibly grabbing one of the elite players in the draft? Gardiner’s contract is up in a couple of years and he’s going to want more money. Is he worth say 6 - 7 million per? Like JVR, Gardiner’s value is at an all time high. He is a tradeable asset on a cap friendly contract and all trades in the NHL today are greatly influenced by cap considerations. A draft regarded not as strong, means that the possibility exists for trading up or trading for, perhaps at a lesser price than what normally would be. I also believe that Heiksanen projects to be higher than Gardiner as a number 2 defensive defenceman. We already learned that Gardiner is always going to be a 3-4 defenceman.
Perhaps a revised trade idea would include: Gardiner, 2nd round pick, and prospect (i. e. Leipsic) . I’m open to suggestions for trade ideas. I imagine there is a lot of back and forth before teams finally decide on what is fair value. First offers should never be more than halfway or an overpayment in any negotiation.
Ares99R's banter posts with other poster's replies to Ares99R's banter posts
15 Oct 2017 02:55:46
Sorry meant to say Kucherov is considered a star. Sometimes this autocorrect is annoying.
01 Sep 2017 03:42:53
In an older thread a few of us had discussed the value of JVR, even drawing comparisons to Oshie and his newly signed contract as the template for JVR's next contract. In a recent article "Pucks In Depth: Three Players Likely to Regress in 2017-2018," by Todd Cordell, Oshie was one of the theee highlighted players. Cordell illustrated through advanced statistics how Oshie had played well above his norm for the 2016-2017 season, with a shooting percentage nearly 10% higher and "9% more than his previous career best. " Shortly after Oshie signed his eight year, 46 million deal. Based on that information Washington seemed foolish in signing Oshie to that much term. He's a great player but at already 30 years old, one will wonder what his offensive production will be like moving forward. History suggests a decline.
The Leafs need to be careful about whether to extend JVR beyond this season. If Oshie's was given 8 years, JVR's agent will be trying for a long term deal as well and there's no reason why he wouldn't get one.
It's a foregone conclusion that this is probably JVR's last season and anyone thinking that he's going to take a home discount (that would mean signing for similar to Oshie) is sadly mistaken. Make no mistake come July, some team is going to overpay for this guy and offer more than the Oshie deal.
1.) 03 Sep 2017 18:21:46
JVR has many offensive attributes. he, however is not so good in the other side of the rink. It would be nice to keep JVR because of who he has been to the Leafs, but he is not effective defensively, and that is where Babcock is taking this team. as well as winning. I see him being moved.? . when I'm not sure.
19 Jul 2017 17:06:38
With all this talk about JVR being traded, what is the possibility that they keep him? Toronto has the cap space for both JVR and Marleau. Wouldn't they be more dangerous having two elite wingers on their roster? Toronto could hold JVR for the season and decide during the trade deadline whether to move him. If at the deadline, they have little or no chance of making the playoffs, and are unable to re-sign JVR, then the Leafs should trade him for the best deal. Yes, the Leafs could trade JVR now, but the likelihood that they acquire a much coveted top 4 defender through him, seems unlikely unless. No team is trading a top 4 defender for a soon to be UFA. JVR's salary would also necessitate another salary coming back in a trade. Be prepared Leaf fans for a season leading up to the deadline that may include both JVR and Marleau.
1.) 20 Jul 2017 00:26:09
I could see Bozak being traded with other parts for prospects or a young defenseman to Carolina, Rangers, or Predators.
As well Fehr and other parts could be traded to Vegas.
16 Jun 2017 15:54:55
With so many trade proposals for an established top four defenceman, and with the price tag already so high, I wonder if the Leafs would explore the possibility of acquiring 1-3 of the following players in no preferential order:
1. Ryan Pulock
2. Mirco Mueller
3. Ville Pokka
4. Derrick Pouliot (although unlikely considering Fleury is rumored to go. It was rumoured the Leafs initially wanted Pouliot in the Kessel deal)
5. Jaime Oleksiak
6. Nathan Beaulieu
7. Nikita Nesterov
8. Dylan DeMelo
9. Simon Depres
10. Klas Dalhbeck
11. Mark Pysyk
12. Nate Schmidt (25 years old)
Rationale:
1. These players may not cost the Leafs as much in a trade as they are not talked about nearly as much as the usual suspects;
2. Player's possibly still with potential to become a top 4 defenceman;
3. Players who were highly touted in their junior years;
4. Player's who are under 25 years of age.
5. The price of trade may vary according to player but I imagine the Leafs might be able to land one or two using up some of their prospects and/or picks therefore keeping their current roster intact.
Again, these are all based on players currently expected to be available for the expansion draft although there could be changes.
This would be one of several strategies I would consider without having to 'break the bank.'
17 Aug 2020 00:58:13
Loxley,
If that is the case and there are no LTIR contracts worth obtaining, then that’s fine. I didn’t look into detail myself as it was a suggestion. Your response previously was ‘dont want no more LTIR guys’ as you so eloquently put, which implied a different understanding.
I’m in agreement with you Marner’s performance during the play in round was well noted. However, in his defence, this has been a very weird and difficult year for professional sports and everyone for that matter, that goes beyond money. Before all this Marner played hard and with heart on almost every shift. I won’t judge Marner on such a small measurement, when he’s shown so much more over the course of his career and with the Leafs.
16 Aug 2020 03:34:46
Hockeyluvr - I had no idea about Hall as I haven’t been following him that closely. Like I mentioned before, if the Leafs do their due diligence and find that he would be a potential problem in the dressing room, then I am sure they would pass on him or any other with a similar attitude.
Islandjet - All I was saying about Buff is for the Leafs to kick every tire and see if there is a fit. Obviously if it doesn’t make sense with their cap, they won't do any deal.
Loxley1972 - I was referring to Marner thank you. You’re missing my point about the ‘LTIR guys. ’ Toronto’s cap this year was an additional 10 million or so with Horton and Clarkson. That’s an extra 10 million to spread around their roster and take advantage of their financial might where other teams would be unable to. Imagine if Toronto could find ways to do this repeatedly year after year. Imagine what they could add to their roster.
LeafsLife - we were paying Ceci 4.5 million this year right? Wouldn’t you rather have a healthy Buff for 0.5 million more over Ceci?
15 Aug 2020 16:09:48
I think the Weber attraction has come from a recent article posted by one of the hockey sites, "The Hockey Writers, " outlining a trade proposal by someone who suggested Weber and Gallagher for Tavares.
15 Aug 2020 14:03:27
LeafsLife,
I’m in agreement with you on Gudas. I didn’t picture him any higher than as a third pairing guy. Although the Leafs have a number of guys who can play on the third pairing.
I chose Hall as a former MVP who might adds a few intangibles to the Leafs. If he is as you say character wise, then I’m sure the Leafs will do their due diligence. They sent Kessel packing in part because of his attitude. Perhaps they could fill any forward depletion’s internally as that’s been more of an area of strength.
05 Dec 2019 21:28:00
I’m with LeafsGM on this. Where is the value in this trade for St. L? They’d be giving up a stud defencemen and taking back a few spare parts.
19 Jul 2017 16:49:09
I think JVR's days as a Leaf are nearing an end. Curious whether Toronto will keep him until the trade deadline and make a decision then? They could decide then, depending on whether they are in playoff position, whether to keep or trade him.
19 Jul 2017 16:46:28
I'm in agreement with everyone here although I wouldn't entirely rule out Rychel. I have a feeling he may still yet make the Leafs in a bottom six role. A lot will depend on who stays, and who goes, what positions are available during camp.
19 Jul 2017 16:43:12
it will be interesting to see how long Sakic holds his position within the organization if nothing is done to improve the team.
19 Jul 2017 16:42:22
I agree with Goatson and really looking forward to seeing how these two prospects turn out. I have a feeling that Liljegren will surprise a few this year with his play.
19 Jul 2017 16:32:46
How are we done with 1st round picks Captain Clutch? 1st rounders are the "currency" of the NHL.
Friedchicken is riht about long term planning.