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07 Mar 2018 10:17:01
Leafs trade Gardiner and Brown

Arizona trade Hjalmarsson

Leafs need to redo defence badly

Brown is sliding down depth chart for leafs

Agree0 Disagree9

07 Mar 2018 12:55:27
Davidmackin, horrible trade proposal. Brown still has value. Huge overpayment for Hjalmarsson. Brown is being misused by Babcock big time. Brown is a top 9 forward. If you are going to trade Brown it should be for a forward of comparable age that is bigger, excels on the forecheck and is a big bodied presence at the front of the net who can chip in 15 to 20 goals a season. Otherwise keep Brown and get rid of Gardiner.

07 Mar 2018 15:54:03

Hyman and brown are lower level players

3 players that have more skill are kapanan johnsson and Grundstrom

Leafs will dip into free agency as well

Brown or Hyman are players Coyotes would want cheap and controllable

Trade gardener and a prospect and get major defenceive upfrade with term. That is probably the path leafs will take.

07 Mar 2018 16:36:55
Mackin. you're insane. Johnsson and Grundstrom haven't played a single NHL game ever, and you believe they have more skill.

Hyman plays top lije minutes and plays on the number 1 PK unit. Those players don't just grow on trees.

Brown has the ability to play up and down the whole line up and score 20 goals a year.

Its clear you have no idea how to judge talent.

07 Mar 2018 18:45:12

We can look players at same age at look comparison

Look komarov stats vs grundstrom at same age and we can see grundstrom has more upside

We look brown vs Johnson same age AHL stats Johnson has more speed more skill more upside

Base comparisons on numbers.

07 Mar 2018 22:57:23
Johnson and Grundstrom haven't proved anything yet at the NHL level. Remember Alexandre Daigle? His numbers were supposed to project into stardom in the NHL and he became a bust. My point is number comparisons in Europe and in the Minors don't necessarily translate over into the NHL DavideMackin. Johnson and Grundstrom need to prove their worth still in the NHL, that is why you keep Brown and you can get rid of Komarov and Polak. The only thing that Komarov and Polak excel in is icing the puck which goes against posession analytics.

08 Mar 2018 00:00:49
For once, I’m half in agreement with Mackin here. Brown is slipping this year, and maybe it’s just a sophomore slump, but then again, maybe it’s a harbinger of things to come. Hyman is good, but he’s a beneficiary of playing with Matthews, not the other way around. Any other team would probably have him third line.

Trading Gardiner and Brown for Hjalmarsson is a no go. Hjalmarsson is no better than Gardiner, and throwing Brown in is giving up too much. Brown is great trade bait, as is Gardiner, but Leafs will be wanting to improve on their weak points, and this trade does nothing to address those issues.

08 Mar 2018 16:41:13

The defencemen that is best for leafs with term left I'm not sure

But you trade Gardiner plus brown to get a major upgrade on defence

Leafs will be active in free agency



Outgoing in package


08 Mar 2018 19:47:36
I'm not sure how you figure Hjalmarsson is a major upgrade on defence. He's no better than Gardiner. And his his contract expires end of next year, same as Gardiner, except Hjalmarsson has a NMC, which could make trading him more difficult than moving Gardiner.

07 Mar 2018 03:13:34
Toronto trades Gardiner
Dallas trades Heiskanen and a 1st.

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07 Mar 2018 05:49:18
Not a big enough return.

I hear Gards is worth a 1st, 4th and two A prospects.

07 Mar 2018 07:35:48
SmileyRielly too much. I would be more than happy with Gardiner for Heiskanen and a 1st, that’s all.

07 Mar 2018 12:17:02
I say get what you can for Gardiner. Gardiner is rather difficult to watch play hockey, offensively and especially defensively.

07 Mar 2018 13:14:51

So basically a top 5 pick along with a 1st is not enough? Gardiner can't even play defence and is a turnover machine.

07 Mar 2018 22:38:39
Come on guys, you clearly didn’t read my thread below. I proposed Gardiner for 1st/ Kaprizov. He responded saying gardiner is worth a 1st, 4th and two prospects.

My comment was to highlight his hypocracy.

With that said, I would do this trade as well.

07 Mar 2018 23:01:52
Hey SmileyReilly, you know what Gardiner can fetch? A retirement trip to Figure Skating's Stars on Ice. Did anybody see the Triple Toe Loop Gardiner made in the Washington game on Saturday night? Oh, that's right, that happened when the lights went out for 15 mins and another Jake Gardiner giveaway to the Capitals happened.

08 Mar 2018 00:08:03
If I was Dallas, I would probably say no to this trade. They’ve got a good defense already, and Gardiner doesn’t address any glaring need and is UFA end of next year. Heiskanen is a very highly rated prospect, and will almost definitely make the team next year or the year following. Plus we expect them to give us a 1st round pick? I don’t see it happening.

I’m sure there is a team out there willing to part with a highly rated prospect and a 1st for gardiner’s services, but I don’t think it’s Dallas.

08 Mar 2018 02:01:33

I never said Gardiner was worth a 1st, a 4th, and two prospects. In fact, I went through the threads as far back as I could go, and I never seen anyone say that. So not sure where you got that from.

I posted this trade because I wanted to see what value others have in Gardiner, seeing as that I obviously have him valued too high.

You say you would make this trade, and you proposed a similar trade yourself not long ago. That tells me you value Gardiner more than you admit.

No way Dallas makes this trade. Heiskanen is a top rated prospect and expected to become a franchise defenseman for the team. Dallas knows exactly what they have, and they aren’t going to let him go that easily.

Gardiner is probably worth a first and a prospect, but finding the right team to offer that might be a challenge. Especially since he is UFA end of next year. As the Leafs demonstrated this year, they are not adverse to holding onto their UFA’s. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gardiner finishes next year as a Leaf.

09 Mar 2018 04:35:43
4th comment from the top - but you’re correct. It wasn’t you, someone with a similar name.

I value Gardiner for what he is. A capable offensive top 4 dman who will never move into elite status because of his defensive deficiencies. That is worth a prospect with significant up side and a mid to late first round pick.

Reilly is younger, plays tougher minutes, is much better defensively and has a high PPG than Gardiner. He’s also locked down for a few more year on a cap friendly deal. He’s the future. I’d rather get assets for Gardiner at his highest to continue help the teams future. We won’t be able to afford the 7+ he’ll be asking for next summer.

11 Mar 2018 02:22:10
I agree with you that Reilly is the better defenseman. I’m still not convinced he’s the franchise defenseman the Leafs had him hyped to be when they drafted him. He’s a 1b who needs a real stud beside him to take him to the next level. He’s kinda like a Seabrook without a Keith right now. If Gardiner is asking for 7+ then we should trade him for a bag of pucks and some used goalie pads. Whatever we can get. Gardiner is a very good player and at his maximum value. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult to read the Leafs mindset right now. Not trading any of their UFA’s was a surprise to pretty much everyone not name Lou. My gut instinct tells me Leafs didn’t get a good enough offer for their perceived value of JVR and that is why they kept him. My gut instinct tells me the same thing will happen with Gardiner. He has too many deficiencies for anyone to offer substantial return for a pending UFA. Leafs may determine it’s in their best interests to keep him for a playoff run next year. I guess we have to wait and see how he performs next year before we can make any real estimates to his worth to the Leafs.

13 Mar 2018 05:43:47
I honestly believe that Rielly has another level. He has come so far with his defensive play and is finally being given some PP time. He was 22-23 last year and went up against top competition every night. PK every night. I think if he was lined up with a player as equally skilled but with different skill set he’d be incredible. Vanev comes to mind. Seabrook and Keith is an excellent comparison.

How many cups did they win?

I agree 7 mill is too much for Gards. He’s entitled to it tho. Dmen are over paid these days (Shattenkirk), Gardiner put up similar numbers and edges with possession. I hope we trade him this summer while his price is high.

I certainly wasn’t surprised we kept our UFA. I repeatedly said we wouldn’t trade JVR, Leo or Bozak. The Leafs mind set is simple and the one thing they don’t beat around the bush with. They want to create a dynasty that has a repeated playoff presence and want to win multiple Stanley cups. The dynasty part means they aren’t willing to trade for short term success (ie they’re not trading our future for Karlsson) . It also means they aren’t giving up a 30 goal man (JVR) and an elite PK man (Leo) for pennies on the dollar when they want to make a run. I didn’t include Bozak because I feel they kept him due to our poor center depth. Trading these guys would be a message to the team that management is cashing in and doesn’t think they’re going anywhere this year. We didn’t have to trade for a significant rental because we already had our own. No offence to Plekanec but that’s a depth move

We are 6th overall right now. 6th! We are in far and away the hardest division. We have elite scoring depth and one of the best goalies this season. Our PK and PP both rank 7th. We aren’t a Stanley cup favourite but we’re certainly a

Matthews has also missed nearly 25% of our games played. That’s another 8 goals at his current goal per game. We could potentially has been into favourite status.

06 Mar 2018 20:39:39
Tor- Marleau to SJ for a pick
Tor- let's Bozak walk in FA
Tor- Sign Tavares with the cap space freed up by getting rid of both marleau and bozak. Tim Gleason and Jared Cowen's buyouts also come off the cap which is another 2 million. So Marleau and Bozak are replaced by Tavares and Andreas Johnsson.

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06 Mar 2018 22:51:31
Sounds easy enough. You didn’t include JVR. How do we afford him too?

07 Mar 2018 00:59:19
And you want to give Tavares how much money to be our 2nd or 3rd line center?

I also have a hard time believing Tavares would accept a lesser role than his current one at 1st line center.

07 Mar 2018 05:35:13
Put him between marner and JVR and call it the first line. It would be on most teams.

06 Mar 2018 20:29:10
Tor- Carrick, 2018 1st, Bracco, 2019 2nd, Zaitsev
Stl- Parayko

Stl just traded Stasny and they might be gearing up for a rebuild. Toronto could take advantage of that.

Defense 2018-19

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06 Mar 2018 22:42:58
Hey VanCreamsdyk, the St. Louis Blues are not in a rebuild. Nice try though.

07 Mar 2018 01:03:06
I’m pretty sure St. Louis traded Statsny more because he is overpaid and becomes a UFA end of season. Something the Leafs probably should have done with a couple of their own UFA’s.

07 Mar 2018 10:15:37
He is signed to ST Louis pretty cheap and long term they are not trading him. But your idea to overhaul defence has merit .

I already have written this season off. I look forward to draft and free agency and training camp

Leafs need to move two players to forth line brown and Hyman insert Johnson and Grundstrom fix defence and add free agent forwards.

05 Mar 2018 02:34:22
Summer trades:

Leafs aquire : Kaprizov, 2019 1st
Minnesota aquires : Gardiner, 2019 4th

Leafs aquire : Vanek
Vancouver aquires : Carrick, 2019 1st (Van)

Leafs aquire : Theodore
Knights aquire : Rosen, Bracco, 2019 3rd

With Gardiner showing consistency with his point totals he would be coveted by many teams. 1st and an A prospect is a good return.

I don't think the second trade requires any explanation.

Theodore isn't likely to be traded but the thought of rejoining Holm and Rosen as well as stocking the cupboards might do it.

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05 Mar 2018 03:53:10
Vegas isn't trading Theodore, he's apart of their bright future. Rosen is just terrible, can't defend, can't make fast decisions and too many turnovers.

05 Mar 2018 04:39:02
I also smoked one too many as the Vancouver trade was supposed to read Tanev.

05 Mar 2018 05:34:09
Sorry not nearly enough for gardiner: i’d Think the leafs would want slightly lesser value than the McDonagh deal (subtract Namestnikov) a 1st,4th and two a level prospects

It would cost more than that to get a Theodore deal done much more.

05 Mar 2018 16:44:25
I don’t agree with the comparison to Mcdonagh. Mcdonagh is a true two way defender who puts up points similar to Gardiner while also being near elite defensively. Gardiner is too one dimension to get that sort of return. Even if we traded him at the deadline with a year left on his cap friendly contract, like Mcdonagh.

05 Mar 2018 18:23:38
I’m not so convinced the Leafs will trade Gardiner. He’s having another good season. The biggest knock against him is that he coughs up the puck too much, but in this category he is comparable to Doughty, Carlson, Subban, and Burns, just to name a few. He’s on the ice for more goals for than against. And he is a fast, pick moving defenseman. This deadline shows that Leafs are not adverse to holding onto their free agents instead of trading them. If Gardiner has another good year next year, and Leafs haven’t brought anyone else in, he might just finish his contract as a Leaf.

05 Mar 2018 20:42:32
I’m not sure what will happen either. We will have another JVR scenario on our hands as he is due a good raise next summer. We have youth coming up and I think Dermott will be a good replacement for Gardiner with time.

Doughty, Burns and Subban are on another level than Gardiner. Carlson and Burns are the closest comparison as far as being one dimensional but both have as many points in 60-65 GP as Gardiner will have at seasons end. Gardiner is great.

He’s not elite like you are proposing.

05 Mar 2018 22:03:59
I’m not saying he’s elite. Where did I say that? You’re putting words into my mouth. All I said was that he’s doing really well, and it’s quite possible the Leafs don’t trade him.

06 Mar 2018 01:28:04
You compared him to three elite dmen. Like probably 3 of the top 5 dmen in the world. That strongly insinuates that you believe him to be elite.

06 Mar 2018 13:09:44
You are twisting my words. I made a comparison in one single category. That’s a far cry from calling him elite. The knocks against Gardiner are still many. He doesn’t hit, he can’t take a hit, he can’t fight, he coughs up the puck to much, he thinks he’s a forward, he’s significantly lower in TOI than others. I never once suggested he was elite. He has, however, very quietly turned into a very good player. He is easily the most improved player under Babcock. And even doing a broad statistical comparison, Gardiner’s numbers put him in the top 15 defensemen. In many cases, his numbers are comparable to and even better than guys like Burns, Doughty, Karlsson. So yeah, even though it’s unlikely Gardiner will be nominated for a Norris trophy any time soon, he still has less give aways than Burns, and his +/ - is still far better than Karlsson’s, and his point totals are just as good as Doughty.

06 Mar 2018 14:48:56
Leafs GM

Gardiner is not top 15 D in the league

I would say maybe top 60 .

And that’s simply because of his offensive ability (everyone has strengths and weaknesses)

I would say if you are ranking D men based on skating ability and defensive prowess, I wouldn’t put him in the top 100

Thank you, come again.

06 Mar 2018 19:13:21
What numbers are you referring to when you say he’s top 15?

His point total puts him there. What else.?

Gardiner plays a tonne on the power play and is still only +6. Doughty is +18 while having secondary duties on the PK. That’s probably because Doughty is on another level than Gardiner and keeps the puck out of his net when he’s on the ice at 5v5.

You need to stop comparing him to these guys and find people more comparable. Yandle, Myers, and Miller are guys who are closer to Gardiners ilk. Not Doughty, Karlsson or Burns. SMH.

06 Mar 2018 22:44:22
Trade Gardiner!

06 Mar 2018 23:35:32

Here are some comparable players to Gardiner (not in style of play, but overall value. there are a million different ways to value these guys) :

D. Schlemko
J. Dotchman
M. Kempny
C. Ruhwedel

There are a couple of guys in my sons team who are comparable . there is this one kid, Leoni, he’s 17 and plays guys into the boards, plays the pass on a 2-on-1 . basic stuff that you learn in your first year as a D man

Maybe Gards will figure it out before he retires . not sure how he made the NHL as a D man . not sure why some of you talk about him like a top 6 D . maybe a number 7 on a really bad defensive team

I heard his dad still comes in the dressing room and toes his skates .

07 Mar 2018 00:34:13
You know, I really don’t think you give Gard’s enough credit. Maybe I’m pushing the envelope and trying to give the guy more credit than he deserves, it’s true, but really, he’s not that bad. The last two seasons he’s really turned it around and has developed into a top 4 defenseman (on any team), and may just be the best defenseman on the Leafs. Ask yourself, what would you expect in a trade for him? If you expect at least a 1st round pick and a prospect, then you value him a lot higher than your response would indicate.

07 Mar 2018 01:04:13
There’s no denying Gardiner is easily a top 4 on any team. I proposed we trade him for a first and a nearly guaranteed stud in Kaprizov. This kids going to light up the NHL.

07 Mar 2018 01:08:51
Trade Gardiner now while he has value, TML will never win a cup with him, he has mo defence and he should play forward.

07 Mar 2018 09:13:48
He really is bad . just watch him on ANY defensive play . Literally 8/ 10 times he looks bad . Don’t look at the stretch pass or a play when he joins he rush! We get it, he has some offensive upside . I get it!

If he was there to play that role and had a strong stay at home d partner, maybe there could be a case made for him.

07 Mar 2018 12:44:47
It's inevitable that they will trade Gardiner, if you look at when he needs a new deal it coincides with Matthews. He'll want a significant pay raise and the Leafs are developing Dermott for that 2 pairing LHD spot.

04 Mar 2018 18:04:19

Leafs trade carrick

Montreal 3Rd 2018

Leafs gm

That trade is just a space filler now tell me what top 4 defencemen

A wants to come Toronto it's not Doughty Carlson

B what defencemen comes at reasonable price it's not Karlsson

So tell me who your target is and at what cost

But don't give me

Doughty or Carlson because Toronto they don't want

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04 Mar 2018 18:18:02
This team still has problems

Leafs don't last long in playoffs this year

I very interested to see how they fix defence in summer
Also I want to see Kapanan playing with Johnson on third line

Superman is not coming here on defence

What leafs solution is I'm very curious.

04 Mar 2018 18:30:47
I hate to burst your bubble Mackin, but Karlsson has said repeatedly he will go to the highest bidder. Even if it’s the crappiest team in the league, he will sign for whatever the market value is. We don’t even have to trade for him. Just wait until he hits the open market and then offer him more than anyone else. Simple as that.

There’s also absolutely no reason why Doughty wouldn’t want to play for Toronto. Considering he was born in London, Ontario, my guess is that he would have no problems playing for his home team. I’m pretty sure he wants to win another cup, and he would have a much better chance here than on LA. Trading for Phaneuf is a good indication LA doesn’t plan on keeping Doughty either. I simply don’t see them being able to afford both players.

Your argument that Doughty wants remain in LA because it’s a nice place to live doesn’t have any merit. Not once have I ever read anywhere Doughty said he doesn’t want to play in Toronto. So unless you are a mind reader, you have about the same information as I do, which isn’t much to go on. There’s absolutely no reason Doughty, Karlsson, or anyone else wouldn’t want to come play for Toronto now that we have a good team. Signing Marleau to a good contract and honoring that contract is a sign to UFA’s that Toronto is serious about bringing talent in and making a run for the cup.

04 Mar 2018 19:29:58
You want to pay Karlsson 11, 12 million? give me a break, no budget.

04 Mar 2018 20:13:30
How do you figure there is no budget to give Karlsson $12M, but you can come up with $6M for Statsny and another $7M for Carlson from Washington? Since you were able to figure out how to free up $13M for those two lesser players, you can just as easily use your own budget to pay for Karlsson.

04 Mar 2018 22:11:16
Carlson is not going leafs but paying 2 players 13 million is far different than paying Karlsson 12 million.

04 Mar 2018 22:10:36
Gotta love how the most clueless poster states his opinion as fact. So lucky we are to have your inside scoop on where Carlson and Doughty want to play.

Did you guys discuss this over lunch yesterday?

04 Mar 2018 22:30:27
Mackin seems to forget that both Lou and Babs love having Norris Trophy winning defensemen on their teams too. Unless something has changed, I imagine both gm and coach are licking their chops at the possibility of having Doughty or Karlsson playing for them.

05 Mar 2018 00:42:15
None of the dmen Leafs have are keepers. maybe Dermot. I an really getting annoyed with Reilly. the rest are cattle fodder.

05 Mar 2018 03:33:23
Who’s to say that Karlsson isn’t using the speculated contract expectations as a way to force Ottawa’s hand in moving him? We obviously don’t know the entire story behind what is happening with Karlsson and the Senators. We do know that not every team can afford him. Even more importantly, If you’ve watched Karlsson play, you know he cares about winning and wants to be on a team that’s moving forward. So, going to the highest bidder is a mute point as Karlsson knows he will get paid regardless of where he goes.

There are a lot of reasons why Doughty could say no to coming to Toronto, all of which are “none of our business” reasons. Just because he’s been quoted on radio and in the media for the possibility of coming to Toronto, doesn’t mean he actually would. LA is great franchise and should they make the playoffs, have every bit of a chance in going deep. The Kings will make every effort to keep him around.

Even if you haven’t read something in the press about either player that would indicate otherwise, it doesn’t necessarily mean that there couldn’t be other undisclosed reasons for not moving. Personally, if I were an NHL star player, I am not sure I would base my decision to play for the Leafs because they are the hometown team. There are other intangibles that some players have mentioned like Stamkos, who enjoys anonymity while playing in Tampa that he would otherwise not have in a market like Toronto.

05 Mar 2018 05:39:36
I’m not saying Doughty and Karlsson are coming to the Leafs. What I’m trying to say is that it is at least possible. Mackin seems to be adamant that they are not. He states his opinions as fact, and doesn’t entertain the proposals when they are floated. All I was trying to do was show that it is at least possible we can land a real star, and it would be in the Leafs best interest to at least try. Who wouldn’t want one of the best defensemen in the world on the team?

06 Mar 2018 04:10:04
Sure there’s always a possibility that either could come to Toronto. Acquiring either of these two players would probably cost the Leafs a significant player already on their roster, maybe a couple. They’ll need to weigh whether the sacrifice is worth the gain.

07 Mar 2018 12:52:16
It's a higher likelihood of Doughty over Karlson, as going from Ottawa to Toronto is a slap in the face. A trade will cost more than McDonagh, so be cautious there. A FA acquisition is better suited. Depends where both teams are at the deadline next year.

04 Mar 2018 17:21:15
3-way trade

To San Jose:
Patrick Marleau

To Toronto:
Islanders 2020 4th round pick

To Islanders
Matt Martin
San Jose's 2020 3rd round pick


At first glance, this trade seems HORRIBLE for toronto, however this helps toronto quite a lot.

My reasons

1. In the year 2019 the leafs will have to resign important players such as Auston Matthews, Mitchell Marner, and Kapanen. The problem is Patrick Marleau and Matt Martin, their contract ends a year later 2020. They currently gets paid 8.75 million per year between the two of them; the leafs need to get rid of him to pay off these IMPORTANT players or major problems will occur.

2. In the year 2020 Seattle is most likely going to do an expansion draft. Marleau alone effects the leafs here because something called a NMC (No-Move Clause) contract. If the expansion draft is like the last, each team must count their NMC players towards one of their people they can protect. They can only protect 7 forwards; Marleau is 1. Therefore if they doesn't trade him they will most likely loose either Hyman or Kapanen.


3. Andreas Johnsson, LW 23 year old, is averaging a point a game in the AHL; his contract ends this year. Leafs need to get rid of a LW in the lineup.

4. Marleau is going to be 39 years old next year; he's old, he's not getting any better.

5. Matt Martin no longer fits within the lineup, the leafs have no use for him.

Why would the Islanders accept the trade?

Though they take on an overpaid contract. It is only for 2 years and they have the Cap space to do so. They upgrade their lineup and Draft pick.

Why would the Sharks accept the trade?
Though they as well take on an overpaid contract. He is a San Jose fan favorite, they currently have over 18 million in cap space, and he would be a top 7 player for that team.

Marleau is a good player in all, but you must consider factors like these or it can ruin the leafs future.

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04 Mar 2018 17:33:38
You were right when you said this is horrible for Toronto. You’re trading a 20+ goal scorer for a 4th. Won’t happen. Lou signed him to play him not trade him in his first year.

04 Mar 2018 17:45:37
I did not say that I said at first it seems like it's a horrible trade but if you read it you will see why it's a good trade for everyone especially toronto.

He would be traded in the second year of his contract not the first.

04 Mar 2018 17:49:01
Ok if you don't trade him you loose either Kapanen or Hyman instead.
Think bigger picture.

04 Mar 2018 20:05:33
Nonsensical proposal. The Leafs will not necessarily have any cap issues because of Marleau's contract in 2020. There are a ton of moving parts between then and now, including what the big three are signed for (bridge vs. long term deals), how many players on the Marlies are able to make the jump to the NHL (and will be playing on ELC's) and what the total salary cap goes to.

Trading Marleau, an effective 20 goal scoring leader and veteran would be sending a bad message to the team and other UFA's looking to potentially sign in Toronto.

04 Mar 2018 20:55:13
What about the seattle draft they will be forced to protect him because of his NMC contract and risk losing Hyman or Kapanen?

It won't send a bad message if you trade him back to san jose for almost nothing.

This year he has 20 goals.

04 Mar 2018 21:13:15
The Seattle draft which has not even been officially announced? The rules of which have not even been determined? The number of players Toronto will have at the time that will be eligible for it and the number who will need to be protected which we do not know?

Yeah better go trade an NHL iron man who has averaged like 25 goals a year over the past 20 seasons for absolute peanuts, just in case.

Good call.

05 Mar 2018 01:36:31
First of all, Key West Arena needs about 600 million in renovations to get it ready and up to standards for NHL and NBA teams to play in. The earliest they say Seattle would be admitted into the league would be the 2020-21 season which means it's a non-issue as Marleau's contract would have expired by then.

05 Mar 2018 02:00:48
In response to your reasons for making said proposed trade:
The salary cap is reportedly expected to rise in the coming season. Projecting forward 2-3 years there could be further increases depending how the economics of the game unfold. Escrow contributions by players will also factor into future salary cap figures. The Leafs have one of the best capologists in Pridham who I have read and heard is quite astute. As part of a progressive management team, the Leafs continuously evaluate their teams daily and long term needs. They’re in the business of building a sustainable franchise that will remain competitive for years to come. Having experienced management like Babcock, Lamirello, Hunter, and Shanahan, who understand what winning looks like, will only help shape the long term vision for this team.

In terms of your second reason, there is plenty of time before any decisions need to be made regarding the protection of players. In a few years, this Leaf roster may look very different from the one we have now. For example, players like Kadri will be 30 and entering into his final year. Gardiner may still be a leaf by then or have moved on. My point is there are a lot of moving parts and variables along the way that will shape what happens to the Leafs when they reach that point. I wouldn’t worry about the details. The Leafs management will do their best to protect the best of their roster. Other teams will face similar challenges come the next expansion draft.

Marleau was acquired for a number of reasons including the ways in which he is a role model for the younger Leafs still learning the pro-game.

FT4A Stinks summed things up well with Marleau. I couldn’t agree with you more. It would absolutely be sending the wrong message to veteran players outside of the Leafs organization.

05 Mar 2018 02:09:54
If I didn’t read far enough into your proposal it means it held no merit. Regardless, that’s a poor return for Marleau. If he does get traded it would be the last year of his contract where is AAV is tiny and a very easy move at the deadline.

05 Mar 2018 02:31:50
It’s not as if he is signed to a 6 year deal it’s two more seasons he has seemed plenty fast this season, highly unlikely the leafs deal him for that and they have a lot of salary coming off the books this year.

05 Mar 2018 03:37:05
Leafs won’t be in on Karlsson other than to drive up the price; leafs make a blockbuster W/ Arizona

To Yotes: Matthews, JVR (Signed at 6.5X5) carrick, Gardiner, Martin, Brown, Neilson

To Leafs: OEL, Stephan, Domi, Dvorak, Fischer, Oliver-Joseph, 2018 1st (no lottery protection) 2018-19 2nds


Borgman-/ Holl/ Rosen/ liljgren.

05 Mar 2018 05:44:42
Leafs have been linked to OEL/ Domi and have been in the Hunt for more center depth: coyotes get a generational talent plus additional pieces they could trade to recoup assets leafs send there 2018&19 2nd to Arizona (didn’t mention that above my bad.

Leafs depth on the wings and through the middle is stronger; but the D still needs solidifying; with a top 5 pick options are considerable BPA or trade down for additional picks/ D prospects.

05 Mar 2018 12:47:00
Dude why on earth would Lou or anyone with a brain make this trade.

06 Mar 2018 04:15:17
The Leafs are not trading Matthews. We can omit any trade proposals that include his name, especially ones to Arizona. The Coyotes can use their lottery pick to try and draft their own Matthews.

07 Mar 2018 04:25:00
They need a true young number 1 center Matthews is that; they can’t afford another top 5 non impact player ( strome may in time be a guy the can rely) Matthews is that right now.

04 Mar 2018 01:33:38
Brown, Kapanen, a first, and a conditional first to Calgary for Tkatchuk. The conditional kicks in if Leafs make the finals, else it is a second

Sign Doughty next year to 8 years, $12M per.

Agree0 Disagree11

04 Mar 2018 05:23:57
Tkachuk is a great hockey player. I think that as long as he remained composed he’d be a great fit and fill a need for us. This however, is a huge over payment.

Brown and a 1st would be closer to his value, I think. He plays a similar role to brown. He’s just better and younger.

Your evaluation could land a player of Gaudreus caliber. Calgary’s obviously not parting with either of these players. I just mean to say that you evaluated him as if he’s a franchise player.

04 Mar 2018 05:29:23
What is your rationale for the Leafs making this trade, in giving up four premium assets?

04 Mar 2018 14:49:19
I posted this trade mainly just to irritate Mackin.

Neither Brown or Kapanen are anywhere near as good as Tkatchuk. Brown is regressing already in only his second year, and Kapanen hasn’t been spectacular either. Both are good players, but Tkatchuk is set to score 30 goals in only his second season and would be ideal to replace JVR. Calgary is tight against the cap and may not be able to afford Tkatchuk. I overpaid, sure, but not by a whole lot. Take away one of the firsts and the deal is appropriate.

04 Mar 2018 15:13:25
Combined, Brown and Kapanen have played 197 games and have a total of 39 goals and 73 points. It took Brown and Kapanen both four years to break into the nhl. Tkatchuk has 37 goals and 97 points in only 140 games, and is only getting better. He has proven to be nhl player since the day he was drafted. He’s worth at least Brown and Kapanen and a first.

04 Mar 2018 15:46:28
Tkachuk is untouchable, no way Flames trades a gritty, tough player that could also score.

04 Mar 2018 20:19:12
While we can debate that every player is tradable since Gretzky was first traded, to the point as untouchable as a player could be to a team, I would agree with Tyler Wong that Tkachuk isn’t going anywhere.

While I agree with you that Tkachuk is a nice upgrade from JVR, if the Leafs were looking to move the kind of assets mentioned in this trade proposal, I think they would be looking at improving team deficiencies. Wing isn’t one of them.

03 Mar 2018 15:40:01
According to Eliot Friedman leafs were considering

Leafs trade Jvr

First round pick 2018

Then leafs trade two firsts plus prospects

Ottawa trades Karlsson

Glad they didn't get serious about this

Leafs must look two defencemen in summer stay home guys

Calvin de hann

Jan Rutta

Just go secondary market and hope you find a diamond

Agree2 Disagree2

04 Mar 2018 00:39:30
You’re absolutely right Mackin. I can’t see any reason why the Leafs should want a two time Norris winning defenseman on the time. They should absolutely hope to get lucky and keep mining for diamonds instead of picking the ones laying around in the open. It’s not like they are serious about wanting to contend for the Stanley cup. Maybe we can throw around the money Karlsson is worth to two or three lesser players and hope one of them magically turns out to be an elite player. Makes way more sense than pursuing a proven talent and one of the best defensemen in the world. What were the Leafs thinking? You should be gm of the Leafs. Your trade proposals are always so well thought out and insightful I’m surprised Lou doesn’t call you first before making any moves.

04 Mar 2018 03:58:44

Step back - Mackin is my bi-atch!

Ain’t nobody talk that way about my girl

It’s ok Mackin, I’ll take care of you baby.

04 Mar 2018 05:32:41
I agree with Mackin. A move to land Karlsson would make us instant contenders. It would also handcuff us cap wise and we’d have to sell half the farm to get him. The leafs are building a franchise. That means not selling off 4 or 5 picks or prospects who could help the team in the future just to have a crack at keeping up with Boston and Tampa who both have Norris trophy winners/ candidates themselves. Plus scoring and goaltending to rival our own. I think we can beat Boston and Tampa in the first two rounds. I’m not banking on it though.

04 Mar 2018 15:02:40

If you’re going to win the cup, you need to keep up with Boston and Tampa. We need a star defenseman. History has shown time and time again that to compete for the cup, you need someone of Karlssons caliber. We have all the players we need for the next 10 years on the team or in the system already. Trading away a couple late first rounders who won’t make the team for years, if ever, and who will almost definitely be relegated to 3rd line duties because they aren’t going to be any better than the top six we currently have isn’t exactly mortgaging the future.

04 Mar 2018 17:39:23
You’re looking at the short term picture tho. I agree Karlsson would be amazing to have. However, the price is just too steep. Those picks might be late picks. We might recess and be in the lottery next year. Lou isn’t a fortune teller and he’s not going all in to try and win the cup this year. Luck is a huge factor in winning the cup and even with Karlsson we’d only contend with Tampa and Boston, we might not even be the favouritr.

04 Mar 2018 18:07:35
Leafs GM

Tampa and Boston are at different points in the rebuild than Toronto

Yzerman has been GM Tampa since may 25 2010 and his window is only open this year and next

Leafs want a team that never stops chasing a cup.

After next season

Tampa is crippled.

05 Mar 2018 02:19:11
I think Tampa is in really good shape moving forward. They’ve made some tough decisions with roster players but their current playoff pickups didn’t force them to part with many of their elite prospects. They have depth in their system at all positions and with many of their picks still in possession for future drafts.

Smiley Rielly gives some valid points to consider in regards to the short-term versus the long-term picture.
Tampa has preached patience in their approach to building a strong and viable franchise that should remain competitive for a number of years. Toronto needs to continue their own patient path in developing their own team that will be competitive for the long term.

I think you’re missing Davidmackin’s point about treading cautiously in the free agent world. While Karlsson would instantly improve the Leafs defence corps, there are some hockey analysts that question Karlsson’s overall health, and wonder if his past injuries are limiting his abilities. Karlsson will be looking to be the highest paid defenceman in the league if not the highest paid player. His salary demands will obviously influence the free agent market and what players like Doughty receive. If there is a deal where the Leafs can make their team better without compromising their long term vision, then they will do it.

02 Mar 2018 22:49:31
Leafs should trade during the draft

Patrick Marleau
Matt Martin

Martin due to obvious reasons

Why is do we need to get rid of Marleau?

1. Marleau is a 38 year old 2nd-3rd line player who gets paid 6.25 million which is more money than is paid to 1st line player Kucherov, Hall or Tavares. Why do you think no one else wanted to sign him...

2. LW 23 year old Andress Johnsson is averaging a more than a point per game and is going to want to play in the nhl. So one of the left wingers needs to leave.

Hyman is not leaving because he has good chemistry, he's a hard working player and he is worth what he is paid.

JVR is not leaving because he gives depth to the team, you can't trade a person who is going to resign, good chemistry, and he played for toronto a long time so he is well liked.

Komarov is not leaving because you can't trade a person who is going to resign, though he is overpaid his contract ends this year, very good defensively.

Who will want to take them?

A team who wants to develop their players, a team who has of cap space and a team who needs left wings.

Most likely: Edmonton Oilers


1. Cammalleri's contract is ending and Lucic has not preformed as the oilers thought he would do.

2. They are projected to have 8.5 million in cap next year they currently have 44 million in cap 3rd most cap space.

3. Edmonton has a lot of players they need to develop.

Agree0 Disagree5

03 Mar 2018 01:33:47
@LeafsFuture, I agree that Martin no longer fits within the team's progressive vision. But trading away Mr. Iron Man "Patrick Marleau" is not going to happen. Not by a long shot when he still averages 20-plus goals a year; is versatile, durability and dependable to coach/ play with.

JVR on the other hand - albeit a good hockey player lacks certain qualities that Marleau does (i. e. Speed and Back-Checking) . Plus he will want $6M per season to stay on the team and that would just handicap the teams younger LW core (i. e. Johnsson, Grundström, etc. ) who will be looking to break into the lineup next year. As for Komarov, he is a wildcard to stay.

03 Mar 2018 03:42:03
Marleau’s contract is front end loaded. It was designed for him to be traded the last year of his contract. If the Leafs decide to trade him before he becomes a UfFA, he will probably go back to San Jose where he will retire. As it rightly should be. So far, signing Marleau has worked out very well, and unless he completely falls apart next year, he provides us another scoring threat on the wing, or can be switched to center if need be.

I don’t see how Edmonton would find trading for Marleau an attractive option. They are once again in remodelling phase, and will be looking at shedding some of their own contracts if they can. Lucic has a NMC, and will be hard to trade with that bloated contract of his.

Leafs made a good signing in Marleau. Can’t say the same about Edmonton and Lucic.

03 Mar 2018 03:45:21
If Edmonton has a lot of players to develop, why would they bring in Marleau to take up a roster spot. You used the same argument that the leafs have players developing that we need to make room to play, to trade Marleau. Don’t you think Edmonton would want to do the same. You can’t use the same argument for both points of view.

03 Mar 2018 13:24:38
Comparing Marleau, who was signed as a UFA vs. players like Kucherov who were RFA's when they signed those contracts is an apples to oranges comparison and a very poor argument.

03 Mar 2018 18:13:09
@LeafsFuture - I think everyone is in a wait and see more in terms of what will need to be done with this roster moving forward. Management would definitely benefit from another playoff year to assess what they already have before making decisions on players including their pending UFA’s.

@unsportsmanlike is right on with the contract comparisons as Tavares et. al. signed theirs awhile ago. It’s been well speculated that Tavares stands to at least double his salary when his new contract is signed.

@ShanapLan, I really liked what you shared about Marleau and JVR. I thought your response made a lot of sense and really summed up this thread well.

@LeafsFuture, it would be unwise for the Leafs to sign players like Marleau only to unload them after one season. Babcock had articulated once during an interview about making Toronto a safe place for veteran players to play in; and when they do so, more quality players like Marleau will choose to do so. Marleau was also signed for many intangible qualities and for his mentorship role in showing the younger players how things are done game in and game out. We can’t have an entire roster of youth and hope they find their way. Veterans are essential in creating balance in team dynamics.


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